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Author Topic:   trying to figure it out
leapinlizard
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 402
posted July 20, 2005 02:37 PM  
Is the car considered “tight” or “loose” if it stops sliding and point’s toward the inside wall half around the corner? We keep losing momentum through entry and center. We are good on exit though.

I’m trying to learn what a car feels like to be loose or tight or side bite or forward bite or what ever. We have a balanced set up, all tire temps are the same within five degree’s the way I am currently driving it. Pretty straight in and off. We need more momentum getting in and through the center to keep up with the leaders. I’m also new (15 races old) at this so I might just need more balls lol.

Current wieght’s are 53 left, 55 rear, 52 cross, 80 to 100 pounds of bite on a high banked half mile.

STICK01
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 164
posted July 21, 2005 08:04 AM  
it is all a "feel" thing but it sounds like if your car stops sliding then you need to put the pedal to it and keep it going...or then does it feel as if it only brings the RR around, "loose". If not that sounds like a pretty good car...just keep feeling it out and you will get faster, every little bit harder you drive it in will help to diagnose any further problems you may have. But i think that on a larger track momentum is everything...and if your car is tight in to the center then you need to try to pick up the loud pedal a little faster, and gradual as to keep it hooked up.

STICK

leapinlizard
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 402
posted July 21, 2005 09:27 AM  
Funny thing is, you never know where the limit is till you've crossed over and wrecked it!

Thanks for posting. It hard to find a "feel" when you don't kow what your looking for. I guess that's what makes good drivers huh?

So if it's tight in the center, stand on it...I can do that.

STICK01
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 164
posted July 21, 2005 03:41 PM  
no your *** will tell you when you have gone too far...but if it seems like it is going to stop the car you will need to pick the throttle up to keep her moving...if you have to chase the rear end, in, thru, or off then the car is loose. And you have to diagnose it that way...first the entry, then the apex, then the exit.

concentrate on one part and when it feels comfortable then go on to the next part.

A good driver is one that can disect the track and tell his/her crew what the car feels like....and then adjust for conditions.

dluna
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 334
posted July 21, 2005 03:53 PM  
Seat time and a spin out or two will let you know how far the car can go before the rear comes around on you. You are going to have to drive it hard or it's going to be tough to keep up with those leaders.

I too am pretty new to driving. My car is setup tight so that I feel like I can drive the car in hard without thinking I’m going to spin out. I probably loose some corner speed, but until I feel I have full control, I’ll probably leave it tight. Our track always gets really slick by feature time. This may not be the right approach, but I always start the race with too much front brake than I think I'll need. More times than not, it has been beneficial. I can go hard the first few laps and be pretty sure that the rear is not going to come around on me in front of 10 – 15 cars, causing a huge pile up. After a lap or two I will have a good idea of how much front brake I can take out. By the end of the feature, I’m usually back to where I started with the brake bias.

Good Luck

leapinlizard
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 402
posted July 22, 2005 09:14 AM  
While I'm having a blast learning, I know what I capable of with the right training and experiance. I don't want to pick up bad habit's with an old car or learn the wrong way and spend a bunch of time relearning ya know. I have ever intention of seeing the front of the pack and I can't do that learning the wrong way. A goal for me is to win a race by the time I'm 30 and I turn 29 in Sept. It's a realistic goal I believe. So I'm working on devoloping a smooth and consistant style that will offer me a chance for success in climbing the "grid" so to speak. I can't afford a driving school but I can make careful, well thought out adjustment's and achieve what I want with a good plan and a little patience. Enough rambling for now, I'll continue working on finding the edge of control and speed with consistancy. Thanks everyone.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted July 22, 2005 11:44 AM  
Well, i'll say one thing, you got the right attitude. Alot of folks i meet quit within a year of when they start because they cant win. Sad but true.

There car would handle like junk, and yet they never work on it thru the week. Funny really, then they ask why i spend at least 3 days a week in the garage, and hours on the IT reading & learning.

Just keep after it, keep studying, and keep the stop watch rolling and you'll get there. Get comfortable in the car and then try to push it alittle more each week.

boas51
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 190
posted July 23, 2005 08:35 AM  
seat time and knowledge wins races. dont let anybody ever tell you money wins races. the people that are spendin the big money are the people that are to lazy (or just have the money, which isnt a crime, helps guys like us make a little extra to go racin on) to do the work and/or learn to do the work themselves. of coarse it does take some money to race though.
i build all my own stuff, chassis, suspension, engines. had a guy tell me a couple weeks ago i am "above" the local competition because of my commitment and the amount of time i spend "figuring it out".
being on this site is a good start to the learning curve.

DangerZoneRacing
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 176
posted July 23, 2005 09:07 AM  
Hey Devon? You coming to Regina in September for our Mod special? I cant wait to see "real" mods running here. Man I cant satand those imitation 4 cylinder mods. I use to run dirt track for 13 years before coming to Regina here 3 years ago and I keep telling them you havent seen modified racing yet.....not till you see the full size mods. nothin like seeing the left rear hiked up and lifting the left front....last race day I was actually doing that with my bomber. Anyways see ya at the track.

boas51
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 190
posted July 24, 2005 07:55 AM  
i dont think the lf in the air thing is the fast way around on a paved track!
my new chassis are built with mounts for 4 link, 2 link, and z link on the right. i am gonna 2 link my car for the pavement race in stoon and regina. so hopefully no carrying the lf.
the srl doesnt run a lot of engine, in the 400 hp range, but we are expecting some imca cars to join us in stoon and regina. they may be pushing the 500-550 mark.
when the pro 4's came up to rosetown we were turning laps 2 seconds faster, so i will guess we may be a second faster at regina. none of us has a pavement setup ironed out yet, so that may be optimistic.
so yes, i am planning on comming, after all i am the director of race operations for the srl. maybe we can get some interest from down there. the cars are relatively cheap, average cost right now is about $7000 turnkey, and we may have an event in yorkton next season, as well as regina, hopefully.

leapinlizard
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 402
posted July 25, 2005 01:10 PM  
Thanks for the gret responses but I'm still missing something. Let me ask it a different way.

As I roll out of the throttle I have to squeeze the brake slightly to get the rear to start sliding around. At what point, or what feeling am I looking for as a sign to pickup the throttle? Am I waiting for the car to take a set(weight transfer, body roll.) If I pick up the throttle too early, would I expect the car to spin out? If I pick it up too late will the car push? When you mean pickup the throttle gradually, do you mean it should be taking the entire corner to reach full throttle?(assuming engine power is on par with competetion). I need someone who can explain in detail what the car should be doing when, so that I can referance too something to decide what my car is doing.

I see other cars are able to bury the throttle after the car takes a set. I find my car needs a lot of throttle actuation to keep from spinning out. I get in the throttle after the car set's but I have to lift to half throttle by mid corner than roll back in and at full throttle by corner exit or just after. Is this a loose car? As I said before, I drive it pretty straight right now, Doesn't really hang the rear end out much. If I let it go further, I have a hard time making corner apexes without being so loose in the middle I can't keep up with steering wheel and corner exit suffers.

If someone is in Central Mo and hungry, I'll buy lunch for the conversation.

Toywagon
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 15
posted July 25, 2005 03:38 PM  
Hey,

Im in Southwest missouri, so im close!!

I lurk in here quite a bit learning, but dont post much. I did want to tell you that your on the right track with your thinking.

I am in my 3rd season of mods, coming out of mini stocks. I had 2 feature wins last year, and this season, Im racing NCRA over in kansas and on hoosiers, and the learning curve has started all over again.

My advice to you, and im still learning myself, is that with these cars, its difficult for us to hit the setup dead on every week. You have got to change your driving style to adjust to track conditions. Not just night to night, but sometimes from the start of a feature to the end of a feature.

For example, on a tacky track on entry, I snap off the throttle on entry, and the quick trailing throttle will help set the car, without the brakes, and I let the rear end come around until Ive got it where I want it and can usually get back on the gas pretty hard and go. Later on in the afternoon, our track gets alot of sun on the back stretch, and even tho the rest of the track is still tacky, the entry to turn 3 is starting to get dry, and take a bit of rubber. Instead of just jumping off the gas and causing the rear end to step out, I start easing up off the throttle slowly, and sometimes even trail the brakes a little, and never completely come off the throttle. It really tightens the car up on entry in this situation.

If your waiting for your car to feel like its set, you may be waiting too long to pick up the throttle. Depending on your syspension, just picking up the throttle provides bite, and will keep you from going around. Every time your on, off and back on the throttle, your really upsetting the suspension. I usually come back to the throttle pretty good to get up on the bars, and then start coming up to a point that I can feel im moving foward pretty good, but I try to never jump completely back off the gas and let the car come down off the bars. You almost always end up in a throttle push and blow that corner.
Its a feel thing that really takes time to learn, but really is rewarding when you start getting the hang of it.

Hope some of this helps a little bit. I would love to see some veteran racers here talk about running throttle/brakes at the same time, and keeping the car up on the bars going into the corner. These guys with the magic feet could really teach us new guys alot!!

Jim
Toywagon Racing

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