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Author Topic:   Tight in & middle, Spring ??
Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted July 11, 2005 10:07 AM  
Our car is tight in and thru the middle, sometimes its hard to get it to rotate in the center and then drive off (on small tracks).

The track is a big 1/2 mile, on the racing line, and its a tri oval. So turn 1 is kinda sweeping. So is turn 4, the tri oval part is really not much of problem.

The car:

(spring shocks)

925 RF, 6/3 (comp / rebound)
850 LF, 5/3
300 RR (on swing arm), 3 (behind)
225 LR (behind), 4 (infront)

Wheels:

4" RR
3" LR
4" RF
4" LF

Its a swing arm Z-link (spring on the arm), and LR 4 bar. I'm wanting to loosen entry.

RF shock travel is about 5", so there is the issue, i think. RR Travel is about 4". The track is super fast, and its banked steep 25 to 30*, so the travel is generated by the speed & bank more than anything i think.

I thought about going to a 275Lb RR spring, or going up to a 1000lb on the RF. I'm not sure, but i think softening the RR will help get rid of some side bite. That or stiffen the RF to absorb more of the travel and it should steer better in.

I also thought about moving the LR in, to a 4" offset, and maybe even move the LF out to a 3" offset.

Got any suggestions or thoughts?

Thanks, Krom.

Covert Racing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted July 11, 2005 10:21 AM  
Where do you get a 925lb spring? In another words, your RF spring is bad. It is collapsing, causing the car to push as you enter the corner. Put a 950 in there and it will cure your problem.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted July 11, 2005 11:53 AM  
Thats what its marked at, 925lb. It looks old, got it a couple years ago. I'll replace both the front springs, 950lb RF & 850lb LF.

If the 950lb RF helps but dont solve it, what would you do next?

Softer RR, or keep stiffing the RF?

[This message has been edited by Kromulous (edited July 11, 2005).]

nmracer
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 30
posted July 11, 2005 12:51 PM  
If your trying to rotate thru the center you might have to stiffen the rr,or even lower your rr top z bar,make it work quicker.jmo

autoshop
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 298
posted July 11, 2005 03:13 PM  
stiffen the rr and put more angle in the z-link

Covert Racing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted July 12, 2005 06:57 AM  
Try the spring first, before any other adjustments. It is hard to diagnose problems over the internet, because I can't physically see the car and what it is doing. Here is a example. A friend of mine would drive on the top of the straight away and then dive into the corner and the car would push to the top. He would come in and say the car is to tight. My point is sometimes its not the car its the driver.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted July 12, 2005 07:10 AM  
On this particular track, the key is to get the car turned before the apex, because turn 2 is tight, turn 1 is just slightly sweeping in. Like i said above its a tri oval, so its a little different.

Then turn 3 you want to get it turned as you enter or before so you can power on thru 4 and the tri oval. most guys run up high on the back stretch then run down the bank into 3, thru the apex and let the car come up abit before you hit the tri oval turn, then turn back down thru the tri oval turn, and straight into 1 & 2. So as you enter 1, you want the car coming around, then wait on the apex, and then power off 2.

The car is just a little bit hard to get the rear end out, and to get it to come around before the apex of 1 & 2. You kinda have to muscle it to much. Looking to try to get it to drift out on its own kinda.

I'll try the new front springs, then maybe the Z-Link bars, and maybe a stiffer RR spring. In that order.

Hope the track description helps, and didnt confuse anyone.

Krom.

22Power
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 41
posted July 12, 2005 08:29 AM  
SOFTEN RIGHT FRONT AND PUT A 3 OFF ON THE RIGHT REAR.

Covert Racing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted July 12, 2005 08:58 AM  
Also,another thing I have no idea what kind of chassis you are running, how old. No offense it could just be a POS and no matter how much money you throw at it, it will never go around the track. I try to be a straight shooter in my business. I hope everyone appreciates my honesty.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted July 12, 2005 09:19 AM  
No offense taken, calling a spade a spade, is ok with me.

Its an old chassis, that i cut up and made it into what i wanted. I used the cage, the entire front and rear suspension is mine, made by me. I got alot of Ideas from some guys on here especially Zeroracing, thanks Zero.

Its on a Ford clip, and the rear suspension is stated above. The car works really well, but i fight a tight condition alot. Seems to me it has way to much sidebite most of the time. I believe this is partly due to running Hoosier UMP tires.

I've only been at this a few years, so i need to reconfirm some of my thoughts some times. I get to 2nd guessing myself a times on what to do to make it handle right. It may indeed be a P.O.S, but so far i would say its very promising.


rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted July 12, 2005 09:47 AM  
hey krom,
i guess if it were me,i have run a trioval around here and we always adjusted our right top bar with more angle, because the tighter corner of the trioval causes more chassis roll and the more it rolls , the more it loosened it up, on the big corner it had less effect , due to less roll.
they recently redid our tri oval at seymour wis. and made it a true oval.


quote:
Originally posted by Kromulous:
On this particular track, the key is to get the car turned before the apex, because turn 2 is tight, turn 1 is just slightly sweeping in. Like i said above its a tri oval, so its a little different.

Then turn 3 you want to get it turned as you enter or before so you can power on thru 4 and the tri oval. most guys run up high on the back stretch then run down the bank into 3, thru the apex and let the car come up abit before you hit the tri oval turn, then turn back down thru the tri oval turn, and straight into 1 & 2. So as you enter 1, you want the car coming around, then wait on the apex, and then power off 2.

The car is just a little bit hard to get the rear end out, and to get it to come around before the apex of 1 & 2. You kinda have to muscle it to much. Looking to try to get it to drift out on its own kinda.

I'll try the new front springs, then maybe the Z-Link bars, and maybe a stiffer RR spring. In that order.

Hope the track description helps, and didnt confuse anyone.

Krom.



Covert Racing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted July 12, 2005 03:50 PM  
Nothing wrong with building your own car. A guy from my area won Saturday night with a home built car. Against some good competition. BMS,Harris, Hughes,Dirtworks all top of the line chassis. He had a good set up and drove a great race. My point was as I stated earlier, it is hard to give advice over internet, too many different variables come into play. Driver,car, track, engine. And each of those variables have multiple variables. I guess I am cautious about any advice given over the internet. You know what they say about opinions, and they are all different.

Covert Racing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted July 12, 2005 03:58 PM  
In no way do I consider myself a expert, I just stated the obvious, there is not a manufacturer makes a 925lb spring, so there is where I would start.
Hope this helps and good luck.

[This message has been edited by Covert Racing (edited July 12, 2005).]

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted July 12, 2005 04:29 PM  
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/display_id.163/qx/Product.htm


25250-925 5" X 9.5" TRU-COIL SPRING

$39.95 In Stock

You had me questioning my sanity ! LOL i thought i read that tag on the spring right.

Serously thou, its a speedway spring. Left over from an old car we bought. Its probaly exactley what the issue is.

My first impulse was stiffer RF spring, so you confirm what i thought at first.

I'll replace them both, with new AFCO or Hypercoils.

[This message has been edited by Kromulous (edited July 12, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Kromulous (edited July 12, 2005).]

samiller
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 14
posted July 12, 2005 06:04 PM  
you may have too much j bar angle also.try lowering on frame a inch or so.

Covert Racing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted July 13, 2005 06:35 AM  
I'm sorry. I stand corrected. I don't shop from the Speedway Catalog.

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