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Author Topic:   Bert, Brinn, Falcon ??
Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted July 06, 2005 10:52 AM  
Currently running a P-glide, broke our first case. New rear suspension has alot more travel and i dont think it will ever be able to deal with the forces we want to put on it.

Anyway i got some questions about setting up a Bert Brinn or Falcon transmission in a Mod.

Can you run one with a steel bell housing, like a Lakewood ?

Also can you run a stock 153 tooth flywheel and front mounted starter?

Do they require you to run a pilot bushing or bearing in the crankshaft?


What i want to do is bolt a Bert up to a steel bell housing and use our current flywheel and starter set up. Then next year up grade it to the reverse mount, KSE pump deal. Its not in the budget right now to do it all, and we got a high torque starter and a steel bell housing already.

Thanks, Krom.

dirtmod0
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 143
posted July 06, 2005 11:27 AM  
u can run a stock steel, alum. bellhousing. we currently run a front mount high torque started with a 153 tooth wheel and a alum bell. works great all u need is a pedal assembly and a brake line for clutch.
no real need for those high dollar reverse mount starts and pumps.

wfoondirt
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 505
posted July 06, 2005 12:16 PM  
All you need is the coupler that bolts to the crank and your good to go. Stick with the steel couplers, the splines in the aluminum ones will wear out relatively quick. No pilot bushing necessary. Any bellhousing will work. Alot of budget guys use stock gm aluminum ones, you just have to watch for cracks.

[This message has been edited by wfoondirt (edited July 06, 2005).]

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted July 06, 2005 12:48 PM  
Ok, now to find a good used / rebuilt one and a good stock bell housing.

Budget is tight, we sunk alot of cash in the engine / chassis this year and hoped to get the P-glide to make it thru the year, and upgrade it next but its forcing our hand i guess.

Any other advice, such as setting the shifter up, shifting it or other things you can think of?

wfoondirt
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 505
posted July 06, 2005 01:18 PM  
On a brinn just use the standard style shifter with spherical rod ends on both ends. With a bert use a clevis on the transmission end of the the linkage or it will introduce alot of slop.

Honestly they are really straight forward to setup and you will be glad you made the switch.

Change the fluid every couple weeks and don't drive the car on the trailer and the clutches should last a couple seasons.

The berts can be a pita to bleed sometimes.

22Power
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 41
posted July 06, 2005 01:55 PM  
brinn. i got a used brinn(10 nights) for a 1000 bucks and a brand new one for 1200 and i'll sell you the bellhousing for 259 that weights less than a quartermaster lwt, thats brand new.

rrrrick
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 192
posted July 06, 2005 05:58 PM  
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=107063&item=4560372696&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

there is a good priced bert.

I switched to BERT this year from a glide myself. same flexplate, new coupler,
Buy the Bert shifter that locks into high gear,new steel bellhousing (IMCA rule) and a longer driveshaft ( a bert is 2" shorter then the P/G) I also bought the longer slip yoke
Love the BERT, shifts easy all the timee

24KC
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 35
posted July 06, 2005 07:09 PM  
Falcon is the same length as a glide,so you could start with your drive shaft. BUT if you broke a case from too much travel probably want to shorten it and get an 8" slip yoke. The output on a Falcon is splined farther than the others so no worries about bottoming them out.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted July 07, 2005 06:52 AM  
After some researching i figure a Bert is the deal, i would like to upgrade it later down the line to a ball spline. I hear the ball spline is worth 3/10th's a lap in a LM.

As for the glide, is there any particular reason that the cases break on em? I think our driveshaft was bottoming out. I forgot to account for the pull bar travel, once the car was up on the bars.

This glide is going in our 2nd car, a Indiana street stock, or sportsman some call em,, so i still would like to get it figured out.

Thanks for that link rrrick, i might be snagging that one, good price.

[This message has been edited by Kromulous (edited July 07, 2005).]

timtom
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 2
posted July 07, 2005 07:42 AM  
We bought a bert for our modifeid this year. I could not be happier. We run a stock alum bellhousing and flexplate. Put a little anti-sieze on the coupler (some call it a button) and shaft to prevent it from wearing out from dryness. Also the clevises are very slick and work great. You may have to bleed the line again after you run it, but you should be good to go. By the way, Krom, I certainly appreciate all the posts you make in helping others out. TB

------------------
Our Minds Are Always Racing

msnead
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 77
posted July 07, 2005 09:23 AM  
This isn't along the same lines of this thread but it is a transmission question.

We have a Falcon and the linkage that came with the car (it was used) had heims on both ends. The Falcon also has heims that the linkage hooks to. When the linkage is bolted up, there is a heim mating up with another heim causing a lot of "slop" (as somebody on this thread put it).

It seems to me that there would be a lot less "slop" if I used a clevis on the transmission side and keep the heim on the shifter side.

The problem I have is: Where do I find the clevis that fits the heim on the transmission?

I have looked at Speedway Motors, Midwest Motorsports... Anybody know where I can get them from?

Thanks

oldfordmod
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 46
posted July 07, 2005 09:32 AM  
Just weld a flat piece of steel to a bolt head and drill it. Thats what I did and it worked fine.

wfoondirt
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 505
posted July 07, 2005 10:11 AM  
McMaster-Carr has them.

[This message has been edited by wfoondirt (edited July 07, 2005).]

NJantz
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 755
posted July 07, 2005 12:31 PM  
Regarding the Falcon.....
Go to fastenal.com and search for yokes.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what I used on mine. http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=43522

Connect these right up to the shift rods. You'll need to grind a little clearance on the yokes to clear the trans housing.

[This message has been edited by NJantz (edited July 07, 2005).]

NJantz
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 755
posted July 07, 2005 12:33 PM  
Also I tried to use the real light weight shifter from KRC that has handles that are about 1/8" thick or so. I've found that the thicker shifters that are about 1/4" thick work much better.

As far as shifting it I've discovered that the Falcon works much better when I turn the idle rpm down to 900-1000. Goes into hi gear like it should.

[This message has been edited by NJantz (edited July 07, 2005).]

msnead
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 77
posted July 07, 2005 12:43 PM  
I think you have the right idea but I'm not sure the link you supplied was the exact one. It said that they each weighed 3.4 lbs...does that seem right? It seems a little heavy to me. Also, $85 seems a bit much for 1.

I seem to recall them selling something like this at the local Hardware Store with the threaded rod...I'll check for it there.

Thanks NJantz!

3kids
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted July 07, 2005 06:05 PM  
I would use a Falcon. This is why: Falcon has roller bearing inside instead of bushings. Also has roller bearing for the yoke instead of a bushing and output shaft is splined all the way to the end of it so no problem with the drive shaft bottoming out.
The tranny is the same length as your powerglide with a bellhousing. If you are still useing a 3 link car you can still use your same drive shaft.
There is no load on the input shaft bearing because the falcon has a three piece coupler instead of a long input shaft. Makes it very easy to put a motor in the car. Also main shaft is gun drilled but very strong because of no load on that bearing. Change oil in it every 3 nights and never have a problem.
Falcon now also has a type of ball spline but looks like a oversize yoke but would be a great investment over the regular falcon if you rules will let you.
I know someone who has around 150 nights on his falcon and has done nothing but keep the oil changed in it. Use type F fluid. He is completely happy with his Falcon. Hope this helps!

NJantz
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 755
posted July 08, 2005 05:22 AM  
I think that is for a package of 20. that's why they weigh so much and are so expensive. I'm sure they'll sell you just 2. Get the 3/8" ones.

[This message has been edited by NJantz (edited July 08, 2005).]

msnead
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 77
posted July 08, 2005 06:43 AM  
Oh, that makes more sense. I just assumed that it was a really expensive, big clevis.

Thanks!

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted July 08, 2005 06:49 AM  
I'll have to check into that Falcon ball spline deal, sounds good. All roller bearings sounds even better.

I believe there made by Winters, the falcon tranny. If thats the case they should be really good, there QC rears are top shelf.


LATE MODEL 9W
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 66
posted July 10, 2005 10:13 AM  
5 years on my falcon, same clutches. I took 1/4" thick by 1" wide aluminum and used it as a linkage from the shifter to tha heims end on the transmission. Just set them up and made bends to line them up, also double nutted them to not have to tighten them too tight so the linkage will rotate.

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