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Author Topic:   new 4link driver/tuner
dan ferry
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 183
posted June 27, 2005 08:48 PM  
ok, i know 1 time out is maybe early to change stuff but car will not turn without rear brake even slowing off the pace a good bit and almost impossible to use throttle to get it to turn i had to wait untill front end finally would turn then i could run wid open coming off and not get loose usually i see a car tight going in he is loose out from forcing car to turn. my first 2 laps in heat were great i had mostly all rear brake on and car turned easy and seemed to be able to take everything i could give it thru middle and exit, it surprised me after 2 laps it was over i lost rear brakes completely later found to be from ger oil on rotors from seals leaking. once tis happened there was no turning unless on caution laps i slowed to point i shouldnt need brakes to avoid sliding front tires to eliminate that as a problem still pushed bad. double clamped in front r.r. lower and opper bars in center holes l.r. top in center and l.r. lower is up 3 holes outta 5 or 6 im probably wrong but i dont think ts the bar angles keeping from going in.. 1 inch rear stagger 120 lr bite witout me. 53% left 52% rear ha;f fuel and i think was 51 or 52 cross.rear springs are l.r. 200 rr 175. r.r tire is insede r.f. about an inch and lr out side of l.f a smidgen 2 inch offsets on right and 3 on lefts front springs are 800 lf 850 rf and rf seems to be traveling a good bit and frame is not hitting. is this something to do with both rears clamped in front? like i said as long as you can use rear brake to get it coming around it will go excellent bite 1/2 mile track long straights and sorta tight corners but fast. camber r.f is-3 and caster is 5+ l.f is 2.5+ camber 2.75+ caster turns left let go on straights... sorry so long

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted June 27, 2005 09:08 PM  
My car did that for a while. Ended up being my front roll center was the problem. Not saying thats your problem but you may want to check it. Also you said both springs clamped up front?? 4 bar both sides, right? I would think with the RR clamped up front it would be loose going in. Because as you decel. the axle rotation would unload the RR spring. Normally with a 4-bar if you can keep it up on the bars it will turn much better. But you said it was worse if you applied throttle........ hummmm I sure someone has a better idea than me, but I would think if the front end is pushing up the track I would check everything up front for bent parts or binds, then I'd probably check the roll center.
But here's what will loosen the car.
Soften LF or RR spring.
Stiffen RF or LR spring.
Increase cross weight.
Take out angle and/or raise panhard bar.
Increase Left side weight.

But with yours just pushing the nose I would look at the RC. The springs look good up front, that is if your running a metric chassis.

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dan ferry
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 183
posted June 28, 2005 05:40 AM  
thats what i figured with r.r in front would be loose in. these 4 links must be way different i always took cross out and lessened l.r. bite and lowered left % to get our stocks to turn and it worked. car turned ok with alot of rear brake till it went away this is a big metric front end are front springs to stiff? 800 850

dan ferry
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 183
posted June 28, 2005 05:48 AM  
also what kind of pressures should i run i started with 13r.f. 11 r.r. and 10 lefts maybe with 120 lbs l.r. bite and only 1" stagger and rear trails l.r. a smidge i need rear brake to turn car? when trying to get it to turn on throttle front end was already pushing and wouldnt snap rear loose and i'm running a 528 rear gear id think it should have enough to spin

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted June 28, 2005 07:10 AM  
Take a 3" off rim and put it on the RF, add some stagger across the front as well. Maybe 1" or so.

Add some rear stagger, if the turns are fairly tight i would run 3" or so.

Never ran a double clamped up 4 bar, but i've seen some D&M cars run it and it looks tricky but fast when there right. I would think when your on the gas your gonna need some rear steer or stagger to keep the thing from becoming a John Deere tractor out there.

That double clamped deal has got to have some serous FWD bite.

dan ferry
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 183
posted June 28, 2005 03:14 PM  
it does that seems to be part of problem,i,m wondering that witout rear braking the rearend may not be unloading enogh to let it turn in im gonna try to fix the brake issue and go from there. do they make repair sleeves for worn housings like they do for harmonic balancers? if not might be an idea

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted June 28, 2005 04:48 PM  
your psi is about the same as what I run. 13RF 11RR 9LR 10LF. Just somewhere around in that ballpark! As long as you setup the car with those pressures on the scales. Your springs are ok with the big metric. Or well an ok starting point b/c you'll probably have to fine tune it to your driving. I agree with Krom on the front stagger. Try to get at least an 1" also putting the 3" wheel on the RF will loosen entry and tighten exit somewhat. might also try putting a spacer on the RR or if you can find a 1" beadlock (not sure if they make them??) that will loosen entry.

dan ferry
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 183
posted June 28, 2005 06:04 PM  
thanks for replys, so raising cross or rf weight will free car up going in will try it. i tried taking a rounr out of r.f and l.r and adding a round to rr and lf i guess that was wrrong it used to work on my uncles old harris but it was a 3 link, is four link alot different or did we just get lucky on his

dan ferry
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 183
posted June 28, 2005 06:12 PM  
also anyone know what color tube seal for the mitler brothers rear end?

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted June 28, 2005 06:35 PM  
you must have just got lucky LOL!!! what you did was add weight to the RR which will tighten the entry and loosen exit.
Always remember this: when working with weight jacks if you put IN a round your trying to compress the spring and when taking OUT a round you are coming off of the spring. So anytime you put IN a round you are putting weight on that corner and the diagonal corner (meaning RF and LR are diag. just as LF and RR are to each other) so by putting weight on a given corner you are increasing that corners load and providing more traction. So to loosen entry you put IN a round on the RF or LR and to keep the ride height the same you would take OUT a round from the LF or RR. So if you put 1 round in RF, then to keep the ride heights the same you need to remove a round from the LF.

Hope that helps!!!

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