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Author Topic:   keep pushin on
rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted April 25, 2005 07:26 AM  
tested yesterday and the throttle push seems to be a push that starts when off the throttle coming into the corner, then the driver gasses it to loosen the rear and when the car is too high that makes it worse and steering is gone.
otherwise its tail out sideways on the gas to loosen it and hang on tight, not where this driver wants to be, any help would be appreciated. we run 650,680 225,170 53 left 58 rear and 44 lbs bite, 3/4" stagger and imca tires, 4-z lower 10 egrees,upper middle hole at 17 degrees, spring clamped in front on coilover.
rr front lower 10 degrees up, upper to rear 10 degrees up, spring on top shock on bc.

[This message has been edited by rpm20 (edited April 25, 2005).]

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted April 25, 2005 08:15 AM  
Sounds completley tight on entry, try more LR bite.

I've been told, our first year on 4-Z as well, that in order for a 4-Z car to work, the driver has to become used to the car being loose on entry, because it gets so tight coming out or once you get on the gas.

Loose on entry means that the car is gonna naturally begin to come around as you go into the corner, and pull hard once you begin to pick up the throttle.

So i was told.

rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted April 25, 2005 08:35 AM  
gonna try more stagger and a 600 lf spring and if that dont do it then i might try a bunch more lr by adding weight or cross.

sound logical?

rocket36
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 209
posted April 25, 2005 09:00 AM  
check your right front tire temperature.

if its hot, then there is more load being forced upon that corner than the tire can handle, exceeding its grip capability.

if its still cool, then the tire is not working near its capacity, not recieving any load.

if its cool maybe try less rear percentage or softer right front spring or lower right front tire pressure or less toe out or raise ballast.

if its hot, maybe more tire pressure or lower ballast or stiffer rebound left rear shock.

a few things to try.

rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted April 25, 2005 09:10 AM  
rf tire is warm and lf tire is cold.
also rr tire is hot and shows signs of spinning.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted April 25, 2005 09:23 AM  
RR Hot?

Does the car keep coming around when the driver gets on the gas, once he gets it turned?

Sounds like the RR tire has to much drive, once he gets it turned and tries to come out, its over compensating for the lack of LR.

What shocks you running front & rear?

STICK01
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 164
posted April 25, 2005 01:11 PM  
Running Clamped up and RR spring on top, I would think that this would be way too tight, have heard guys say that 40 lbs RR bite is where they start, but only when LR is clamped. I think that your front end settings are not helping your push either...from a previoius post. I know on my DW-8 now that I finally got the front end settings correct the car is a lot better drive wise, and steers like a cadillac. but then again I am running 750 575 225L behind 200R in front.

STICK

rocket36
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 209
posted April 25, 2005 01:19 PM  
i agree with stick.

i would say try running less rear percentage, especially if your fuel cell is way behind the rear axle. try a lesser fuel load.

rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted April 25, 2005 01:54 PM  
yes it does, running 4040 lr on coilover clamped in front and a rr 3050 on the bc in front with spring on top
then if i dont keep on the gas it comes all the way loop de loop.

quote:
Originally posted by Kromulous:
RR Hot?

Does the car keep coming around when the driver gets on the gas, once he gets it turned?

Sounds like the RR tire has to much drive, once he gets it turned and tries to come out, its over compensating for the lack of LR.

What shocks you running front & rear?



rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted April 25, 2005 01:57 PM  
your running reverse split springs in front?
we tried that last year and it got so much worse that a dump truck could have passed me and pushed less. lol

quote:
Originally posted by STICK01:
Running Clamped up and RR spring on top, I would think that this would be way too tight, have heard guys say that 40 lbs RR bite is where they start, but only when LR is clamped. I think that your front end settings are not helping your push either...from a previoius post. I know on my DW-8 now that I finally got the front end settings correct the car is a lot better drive wise, and steers like a cadillac. but then again I am running 750 575 225L behind 200R in front.

STICK



andykmod
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 351
posted April 25, 2005 02:17 PM  
Hey Ron i seen your push yesterday at Oshkosh, where is you panhard-bar? Also why such a close split in the front springs I myself think the car is tight on entry and would try a 750 in the rf and run about 50 lbs of bite to start witch is pretty close to what you have. I know that the 750 will tighten you up off the corner witch is not what you are looking for but i think it will help you in, which is where i think your problem is starting. Make sure you are not bottoming anything out in the rf, check in between the lower control arm and the chassis if you can,t tell use a piece of white or gray duck tape up in there .It is a nasty push though, hope this helps

rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted April 26, 2005 05:29 AM  
andy,
the panhard bar (bisquit j bar) is about 1 " below pinion center and about 5 " higher on the frame, also i only got 1-1/2" shock travel on the rr with a 4010 bilstein on it, whats up with that, just from being so slick you think???

quote:
Originally posted by andykmod:
Hey Ron i seen your push yesterday at Oshkosh, where is you panhard-bar? Also why such a close split in the front springs I myself think the car is tight on entry and would try a 750 in the rf and run about 50 lbs of bite to start witch is pretty close to what you have. I know that the 750 will tighten you up off the corner witch is not what you are looking for but i think it will help you in, which is where i think your problem is starting. Make sure you are not bottoming anything out in the rf, check in between the lower control arm and the chassis if you can,t tell use a piece of white or gray duck tape up in there .It is a nasty push though, hope this helps


STICK01
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 164
posted April 26, 2005 10:00 AM  
are you only running the LR with a coilover?

no dummy shock, chain limiter, or ?? even though it is clamped could it not be at full extension and at the STIFF point?

Just a thought. I learn something new in here just about every day, so I am not always right just offering up opinion too.


RPM20 - I am on Hoosiers which may make a difference. And yes we are running somewhere in the 40 - 100 LR bite in the car, rolls in very nice, lays over and sticks. Had probably the best car I have ever driven the last time out..Car would get in turn and then get off like a rocket...too bad I had to win the semi to get to the show!


STICK

[This message has been edited by STICK01 (edited April 26, 2005).]

wfoondirt
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 505
posted April 26, 2005 10:12 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by rpm20:
[B] upper to rear 10 degrees up,

This always made my cars tight in/loose off. I usually set the the rr rear bar level or slightly downhill to the rearend.


andykmod
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 351
posted April 26, 2005 03:31 PM  
I was getting about 2.5 inches of shock travel on my rr during the slick and at first i was bottoming it out on the rr during the first few sessions i ran and the lf was way in the air, I run my rr spring on the swing arm and my rear link on the rr is level as for the 4-bar not quite sure on angles i messed around with them up there and all i know is it was to much and over centered it. I would check for binds in your suspension, pull bar, J-bar ect ect

rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted April 27, 2005 05:56 AM  
I FOUND THAT MY BISQUIT J BAR WAS HITTING THE REAREND AND STOPPING TRAVEL TOWORDS THE END OF THE REAR STEER TRAVEL, I PUT MY COILOVER ON THE REAR OF THE BC ON THE LR NOW AND RESPACED MY J BAR, ALSO MIGHT RAISE MY LOWER LR BAR (ITS AT 8*)
I SPOKE WITH DIRTWORKS AND ANDY THERE SAID TO PUT MY CAMBER CASTER AT THEIR SPECS AND SOFTEN THE LF SPRING TO 600 OR 550 IF THAT ISNT GOOD ENOUGH, HE ALSO SAID HE WOULDNT GO ANY HIGHER THAN 170LB RR SPRING ON THE HOUSING AND I MAY WANT TO GO SOFTER.

WHAT DO YOU THINK? MY FRONT SETTINGS WERE
RF 9* CASTER , 4* CAMBER LF 4* CASTER , 4* CAMBER
NOW THEY ARE RF 5* CASTER,2* CAMBER LF 1.5* CAMBER, 2.2* CASTER
SOUNDS MORE LOGICAL. I WONDER IF THAT WAS PART OF MY MUD PLOWING PROBLEM?

quote:
Originally posted by andykmod:
I was getting about 2.5 inches of shock travel on my rr during the slick and at first i was bottoming it out on the rr during the first few sessions i ran and the lf was way in the air, I run my rr spring on the swing arm and my rear link on the rr is level as for the 4-bar not quite sure on angles i messed around with them up there and all i know is it was to much and over centered it. I would check for binds in your suspension, pull bar, J-bar ect ect


rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted April 27, 2005 12:30 PM  
hey andy, what are you runnin for springs,
just wondering because of the following that you posted
{first i was bottoming it out on the rr during the first few sessions i ran }

andykmod
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 351
posted April 27, 2005 02:12 PM  
300 on the rr swing-arm

rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted May 02, 2005 05:53 AM  
testing / media night is tomorrow........will try new setup stuff then.

trying no lr bite, low cross (46) , softer lf spring(600), more stagger(2"). raised p-bar 1.5"
might start loose and tune it to my liking.

any thoughts???

[This message has been edited by rpm20 (edited May 02, 2005).]

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