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Author Topic:   Mid-turn drift
tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted April 07, 2005 01:29 PM  
Took my DW8 out to play Saturday and the track wuz super dry. After making brake adjustments, got it to enter great, but it wanted to drift on me mid-turn. If I did manage to get thru the turn OK, then it wuz bad loose coming out. Would too much stagger cause this problem? I'm running 2.5" of rear stagger on asphalt take-offs.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted April 07, 2005 02:34 PM  
stagger could make it loose off, but i wouldnt think it would cause the drift.

what springs and shocks are you runngin?

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted April 07, 2005 03:11 PM  
less stagger, more lr bar angle and more panhard angle...
get rid of those asphalt take offs also... once a tire runs on asphalt it will never work worth anything on dirt...

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted April 07, 2005 04:08 PM  
By rule we gotta run the take-offs. LR bar is at 17*(top hole). Runnin' the j-bar at 8" on the gear, 12" on the frame. Spring/shock combo=LF-650/3050, RF-700/3050, LR-200/4010, RR-175/5030. Bilsteins all around, so if the numbers seem backwards, they are. Was thinkin' about puttin' 175/150 springs on the rear to soften it up. I also have a short panhard bar I could put on, too. This wuz only my second time in a mod, and I like it so far.

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted April 07, 2005 04:38 PM  
have you checked your front stagger? Mine was pushing BAD in the middle last year and I had the front stagger backwards. I fixed that and it helped but didn't completely fix it. Mainly because the front RC on mine was FUBAR!! I fixed that this winter and swapped my front springs to 850 LF 800RF (metric chassis) and now this car went from running in the rear to now running in the lead!

Just shooting out some ideas for you!

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted April 07, 2005 04:39 PM  
Also where are your rear springs located? whats the RR bar angle?

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted April 07, 2005 05:03 PM  
That RR shock number right? 50/30 that would be 5 comp and 3 rebound right? I would run one thats 3 comp, and 5 rebound, hold down that right side some.

LR seems ok, but a 10 on the rebound may make it loose in. I always try to stay around 3 on rebound, anything less and you gotta be really smooth off the throttle. You just cant get down at the end of the sraight and let off the gas all at once, smooth off.

Also, if the tracks is slick most of the time, consider a shorty panard bar, more side bite. That or add some angle to that J-bar, maybe 6" split.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted April 07, 2005 05:27 PM  
kromulous,
He said they were Bilsteins which means the 5030RR is a 50 rebound 30 compression, remember the numbers are backwards.


I assume by 8"on the gear you mean from the ground? Where is that end compared to the pinion? I would put the gear end near the level of the pinion then run it about 5" up to the frame side with a jbar or about 2-3" with a shorty bar. That should put you about 5-7" up from the bottom of the frame. It sounds to me like you have the panhard too high and not allowing the car to stick the right side for sidebite.

Are you sure thats a 4010 on the LR (4 rebound and 1 compression), I would think it would settle awfully hard on entry due to the soft compressions?

I wouldnt soften the rear springs, if anything i might even stiffen them up 25#. Is this a 4 bar car or short 2 bar? Where are your springs at?

nvracer
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted April 07, 2005 05:34 PM  
Personnally I would lower the J-bar. I also have a DW-8. The Jbar is mounted about even to the yolk to 1" lower and run the chassis mount 7" up from the lower frame. If I remember right its about 4" difference in height. Car tends to get alittle tight with this set up. When I have to much angle in the Jbar the car tends to be inconsistant through and off the corner. This is with 8" or more rake.

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted April 07, 2005 06:33 PM  
Chassis is a 2002 DW8, short 2-link on both sides(12.5"), 17* left, 9* right. 25" Monte pullbar set at 17*, slider LR in front, slider RR in back, both locked. J-bar is an Afco rubber-bushed, 26.5" long. I was giving j-bar mounting points off the floor. If you convert Bilstein numbers to Afco, Pro, etc., then the LR would be 91-4, RR 93-5. The reason I thought about softening the rear is because of the Bilsteins.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted April 07, 2005 08:17 PM  
Is the drift just before the center before or after you try to pick up the gas?

how much bite in the car?

I think the LR shock should be stiffer, more like a straight 4040 or 3030. I also wouldnt soften the springs just because of the bilsteins. they may affect teh ride height a little bit when you hook them up, but I wouldnt change them just because of the rod pressure.

Like i said above Id try loweing the panhard bar. The 4" rake you have is prob alright just try lowering the whole thing to where the gear end is at or just below the pinion and try it. We had a 2000 DW8 2link car and never ran the jbar above the pinion. Was always 1-2" below.

tilley88
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Total posts: 879
posted April 07, 2005 10:01 PM  
Drift occurs on or off the gas. I've got the j-bar as low as I can go on the frame side(plug gets in the way). It's about even with the pinion, maybe a little below on that end. Car has about 70 lbs left rear.

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted April 07, 2005 10:18 PM  
get rid of your J bar and put a shorty bar on there with 4 inches of rake
also what offset wheels are on the back end? does the whole car drift or does the back end pull the car up the track

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted April 07, 2005 10:38 PM  
3" off all the way around. Whole car drifts. This week I'm gonna make wholesale changes if it's as dry as last week. 2" LR, 4" RR, shorty bar @ 4" of rake, about 1" of rear stagger. And I'll have my new springs and sliders ready, too.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted April 08, 2005 06:37 AM  
Ok, i got the numbers straight in my head on them shocks now.

The RR is good, but that LR shock is not helping things coming off. You need a straight 4 valve, or a 5 compression, and 3 rebound for slicker tracks.

Shorty bar, and change that LR shock and you could be in the ball park.

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted April 08, 2005 07:22 AM  
I've got a 3030(93) I'll try this weekend.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted April 08, 2005 07:43 AM  
Do you have any ballast on the car?

What is your left%?

Too much left% on a dry track can make the car a little skaty like that. You may want to try moving some lead to the right and/or up higher in the car to promote transfer and sidebite. The 4" RR off set will help as will moving the whole rearend to the left if you have to. We run 3's in front and 4's in rear but have the whole rear moved 1" to the left of DW setup.

[This message has been edited by dirtbuster (edited April 08, 2005).]

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted April 08, 2005 10:16 AM  
I've got a 50 lb. weight mounted left of the fuel cell, low. Last time I scaled the car it had 52.5% left, 59.2% rear, 52% cross(I think), 2300 total w/that 50 lb. weight and 25 gal. of gas. I need to re-scale now that I've changed the Falcon over to a stock clutch/tranny set-up and put 10" wheels and tires on it. I'm sure I've added at least 50 lbs. and lost some rear %. The car is a bullet down the straights, and if I can get back on the gas sooner then maybe I'll turn more rpm and be able to shut 'er down earlier and smoother goin' in.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted April 08, 2005 10:56 AM  
I will assume all those % are without you in the car.

To me personally that is pushing it on left %. I would lower it to around 52% and raise that weight on the left up to the upper frame rail. You might be able to move the weight to the middle bar in front of the cell and take car of both at the same time. You might get by with low left lead on a tacky track but when it dries out you need it higher and furthur right. That will induce more weight transfer to stick the tires since they have less grip to start with. Raising it will create more leverage to help plant the tires with a vertical force. With all your weight on the left and low it has a more horiz or sideways push on the car which causes the loose, or skaty drift.

Keep in mind moveing offsets on the rear like you were talking will show less left% on the scales and may help some but I think you still need the lead higher to induce transfer and roll. I personally would never add lead any lower than the bottom of the fuel cell, and all of mine is from the middle of the cell up.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted April 08, 2005 11:56 AM  
Keep us posted how it runs this weekend, i'm interested in how it improves or not.

Those take off tires, i think i would grind them good as well, get back into some fresh rubber. Might help.

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted April 08, 2005 01:04 PM  
I've got new rubber goin' on the car for this weekend. I'll try to find a spot for that weight, may remove it alltogether. It is low, towards the bottom of the cell, but I'm having a hard time finding another spot for it(valve cover mold-kinda long). I'll try to get 'er on the scales tonite or in the morning if time allows. And yes, I scale my car race ready w/o me in it.

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted April 09, 2005 08:56 AM  
Gotta wait to try out the new changes til next Friday nite, now. Track called off playday today due to rain. Could go race at another track tonite, but I don't wanna get 2 hours of sleep tonite, then put in a 14 hour workday tomorrow. Oh well, gives me time to put 'er on the scales.....and get my shop cleaned up!

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