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Author Topic:   How your mod can become worth $50
ratracer10
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 141
posted February 14, 2005 11:55 AM  
I put this under track tech because I think it fits there better, but felt if I reference it here it will get more of the attention it deserves.
http://www.thedirtforum.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000095.html

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- When in doubt, hit the gas.

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted February 14, 2005 12:42 PM  
How will this be the end to short track racing or make our cars worth less??? Sounds like a money hungry boot **** that had his head up his a$$ on the track and didn't avoid hitting a stopped car (Duh)

ratracer10
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 141
posted February 14, 2005 01:23 PM  
Yes, exactly, but, just keep in mind that if this guy wins his suit it will open the floodgates. It will set a precedent for all case to follow, thatís how most court cases are resolved. They look back to past cases to see what was decided and everyone treats it as a written in stone law. Do you really want to take you car out on the track, when some idiot can pull a bonehead move and hit you causing himself injury, then because it was your car he sues you and takes everything you own (money, house, pension). And even if youíre willing to take the risk how many track owners will? Their insurance will go through the sky (itís already through the roof). So who can afford to run a track? Even then who will want to build a chassis if they face the same fate from someone driving an unsafe car that just happens to hit one they build. The chassis they build and you bought was safe, but his wasnít so you all get sued for his mistakes. Take a look the defendants in this case. They include the track, the track owners, the owner of the car he hit and the sanctioning body.

So how much is your car going to be worth if no one wants race, there are no tracks to race at, and no organizations willing to sanction racing.

[This message has been edited by ratracer10 (edited February 14, 2005).]

mdsteacher
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 145
posted February 14, 2005 01:29 PM  
This is true. I have been following this story for over a year since I race in Michigan.
It is unfortunate that these things happen and it is why track owners try to do their best to waive responsibility with release forms etc. It is probably one of the reasons why DIRT, inc. is having UMP members fill out a health form . . . reduces their liability.
I hope this case gets thrown out and one of the reasons why there needs to be tort reform and ambulance chaser lawyer restrictions.

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted February 14, 2005 01:59 PM  
The lawyer's will settle it. It still will not have as huge of an impact as you are thinking. It is clear it is one bonehead that is money hungry. The court's can see this but can't say it.

If someone threatened to sue me they can go ahead, they are the one who hit me. They can start using street accidents if they feel that they want to handle this case as it seems they are. If I pull out and you hit me, and then I sue you for my broken arm who's the court going to go for???

ratracer10
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 141
posted February 14, 2005 02:27 PM  
So your ok paying the $10,000 in lawyer fees to defend yourself (thatís what this drivers up to and itís not over). Yes, your found innocent and he didnít get a thing.

Congratulation on your victory.

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted February 14, 2005 08:36 PM  
I'd defend myself.

ratracer10
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 141
posted February 15, 2005 07:11 AM  
Legal fees include more then just attorney fees, but yes they are the largest part. Iím also sure that the prosecuting attorney would love for you to defend yourself. There a hundreds of legal procedures and filings that one little slip will cost you big. Not to mention that most judges despise people that represent themselves (in real cases not some traffic court, donít forget that judges are former lawyers).

Donít get me wrong Xtreme, I know plenty of people in the legal system and from what little I know of you here I would guess you are more intelligent then a fair number of lawyers out there. They just have the advantage of 4 years worth of doing nothing but studying and practicing legal procedures. Also donít forget the first and most important step of a case, selecting the jury. A good lawyer will win the case over you right here before it even starts by eliminating anyone that may favor your side. Do you know under what legal precedents you can eliminate prospective jurors that might not favor your opinion or even how to identify them during selection (lawyers do)?

Besides there is no room for common sense and intelligence in our legal system. If there was would some women that spilled hot coffee in her lap be awarded millions, would a burglar that has broken into a house and hurt himself when falling down the stairs on a skate board be awarded hundreds of thousands from the home owner? And look at the floodgates that the tobacco lawsuits have opened. Now people are suing McDonalds for getting fat. Yes the last case was thrown out prior to trial, but not before it cost McDonalds outrageous legal fee to get to that point.

Iím not saying that this particular case is the end to all racing, but it could be the one that starts it. I hope it gets thrown out right from the start and nothing more is heard of it. This is not the first time something like this has ever happened and it probably wonít be the last. I am just saying this is something everyone who likes racing canít afford to just ignore and say itís not me. If just one of these make it through a precedent will be set.

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted February 15, 2005 08:16 AM  
You seem to have a big passion for this case. Get out there and help in any way you can, but it still is not going to affect us. This type of **** happens all the time, it is called gold digging. Just like in automobile lawsuits, you don't see them taking all cars off the road because of an a s s jack who wants some money.

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted February 15, 2005 08:18 AM  
And one other thing... when you eat at McDonalds you don't sign a waiver saying "I know I'll get fat from this food" In racing you sign a waiver saying "I might get hurt and it is not the track's fault". You've also got to realize that probably 90% of the racers are better then this guy and what he is doing, and won't sue if they get hurt. A guy I pit for has been hurt countless times and he isn't suing anyone.

leapinlizard
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 402
posted February 15, 2005 09:46 AM  
As far as court legal document's, That paper you sign won't mean nothing if gross negligence can be proven. There's stupid, then there's stupid on purpose.

ratracer10
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 141
posted February 15, 2005 12:28 PM  
Your probably right lawsuits will never affect you personally, who cares about the other guy.

Yes, there are more and more big lawsuits going against car companies, and yes they are still making cars you can afford, for now. Just like at one time the US had a very good and profitable aircraft industry. Of course in 1986 Cessna, the last and only remaining general aviation manufacturer ceased production of piston aircraft. This was due to the increased cost of insurance and defending lawsuits. Not until 1994 when laws were changed to specifically protect certain manufacturers did production start to resume and companies reopen. Eight years with out new aircraft, how about eight years with no new cars. No this will never happen because more people need new cars then did planes, but how bad will it have to get before laws get changed to prevent it.

How about TEAM Aircraft Company, who has been in business for ten years. They have recently declared bankruptcy, but why? Because they won a lawsuit brought against them. Yes TEAM won and was not held liable for the injuries sustained by the pilot flying one of their aircraft. However the cost of litigation was so expensive it bankrupt the company. At least they won the case, Iím sure it makes them feel better.

Of course aircraft are complex and possibly dangerous things that only a few have anyways and canít happen with anything most people use. Something simple as a ladder canít succumb to this, can it?
January 05, 2004 "The Last Rung"
The nation's oldest ladder manufacturer, family-owned John S. Tilley Ladders Co. of Watervliet, N.Y., near Albany, has filed for bankruptcy protection and sold off most of its assets. Founded in 1855, the Tilley firm was profitable until a few years ago but could not handle the cost of liability insurance, which had risen from 6 percent of sales a decade ago to 29.4 percent by the end, even though the company wasn't sued often and had never lost an actual court judgment.

Ya, I guess your right. A few gold diggers and their lawsuits will have no affect on us.

Long live racing. Go Winston, oops I mean Nextel Cup Racing. Oh well, its just one sponsor that canít afford to support racing due to lawsuits.

HRT187
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 265
posted May 25, 2005 12:04 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Xtreme12x:
I'd defend myself.


That's exactly what they want, there's simply too much legal-ease to wade through and without the trained eye you'd miss something. Do you think legal writing is so complex just to show off their degrees?

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