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Author Topic:   Bird Cages
A&M Motorsports
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 117
posted February 08, 2005 02:19 PM  
Who has the most economical and practical 4 link bird cages. I need only one but want to make sure I get the right one.

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Artie Perilloux
A & M Motorsports

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted February 08, 2005 04:17 PM  
I have the A-1 sealed bearing birdcages, but BSB has a nice looking one and so does Jet. www.bsb-mfg.com www.jetmod.com When I buy a new set I doubt I'll go back with what I've got. The bearing surface on mine is only about 2" wide and over time they begin to wear and can rock from side to side. I'm sure that causes a bind but so far they still do ok. If you want to look at A-1's their site is www.a1racing.com
I think Zero has some of the BSB units and he could probably tell you more about them.

Zero.......your turn LOL!

Hope that helps.
Dale

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1875
posted February 08, 2005 04:35 PM  
haha,
bsb makes a wide bc. the one that i got is a nylon bushing 2 piece design, meening that you can clamp the springs or float them, clamp the brakes or float them. also can adjust the indexing.
now bsb makes a bearing unit that is very very nice, in the same 2 piece design.
they also have a one piece that you can only float the spring for a little less.
but there are a few nice things about the 2 piece ones.
1)lots of options and as you learn to tune the 4 bar you can use those options to your advantage.
2)multiple pieces, meaning you can take it apart for cleaning.
3)you can replace parts if they break or bend.I think most the pieces are like 40 bucks each to replace, which ismuch cheaper than replacing the whole cage like some other brands. YOU WOULD JUST ABOUT HAVE TO RUN INTO A CONCRETE WALL FULL SPEED TO SLIGHTLY BEND ONE!!
also you have to check the bolts on it to make sure they stay tight, just check them during the week some time.
but bsb has some of the most highquality parts in the bc game, the people at bsb are nice and helpful, if you dont understand something or have any problems.
MY NEXT CAR WILL HAVE BSB BIRDCAGES ON IT! I am more than happy with them.
also side note, all bsb parts are great pieces and they have great craftsmanship in all thier parts.
whichever you choose, goodluck.

Dman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 270
posted February 09, 2005 08:12 AM  
The BSB birdcages for four bar are a beautiful piece. My concern is the weight of these things. Birdcages are unsprung weight.
If you are a serious racer you need to consider this.There is a formula for this that states something like every pound you add of unsprung weight will react at the spring and shock like 10 times or more of its weight(can't remember offhand.Old age.)
Why do you think the latemodels and sprinters run all the aluminum parts they can get?It is not just for overall weight.
Do you want to look pretty or win races?
I don't remember seeing these birdcages on Saathoff or Murray's race cars at Vegas in November.Shryock probably doesn't use them either. These billet steel birdcages weigh a ton and they are worse if you put a bearing in them. They cost more too. Just my opinion,but you need to consider it.

udecide66
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 229
posted February 09, 2005 03:33 PM  
Yes, Johnny the "Jet" uses the BSB birdcages on the left rear of his cars, it is a BSB Birdcage slightly modified to fit his chassis's. The right rear is simply a cheap swingarm birdcage, with a brake floater.
My car (A Jet Mod Viper) has the same setup on it as John Saathoff's Viper, and yes it is the BSB birdcage on the left. Yes I agree they are a heavy piece, but the advantages of the BSB are far greater than a few extra pounds of unsprung weight.
Zero is correct, having all of the adjustments you can on one component of your rear suspension is great, you can index these cages very easily, adjust bar angles and length easily.
This is just my opinion, just like everyone else's, you have to decide what is best for you and your racing program, but we are here to help you with that decision.

Hope this Helps
Aldy's Speed Shop www.aldysspeedshop.com

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted February 09, 2005 03:53 PM  
That makes sense, I noticed the Jet cages and the BSB's looked very similar. That must be why. Also the 10:1 unsprung weight ratio is correct. 1 pound reacts as 10. I also agree that unsprung weight is a big factor in your choice for cages but also compare the strength. Look at the overall "big" picture for each birdcage your considering. As you should know, everything on a race car is a trade-off of something else. As with the BSB's like zero said if you can replace individual parts instead of the whole cage then you will save ALOT of money over time. Because no matter what you do, one day your going to ruin a birdcage. And if you can just replace the bad parts you save alot of money.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted February 09, 2005 04:57 PM  
The BSB prob arent as heavy as youd think by looking at them, but they are still beefy. I think the 2 piece steel bearing cage was somethign like 12#(correct me if wrong) but that includes all the shock mounts etc on it. Shryock uses a narrow swingarm type cage, prob weights less than 5#ea, and works well for what he is doing but when you take into account the clamp brackets his springs and shocks are on etc, its prob equals out.

I personally dont like the narrow cages. The birdcage gets a lot of side load on it and will create somewhat of a bind between the axle housing and BC housing. In this case wider is better. With bearing cages I dont think it matters as much.



duece
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 28
posted February 09, 2005 05:10 PM  
I have the A-1 ball bearing birdcages. Ran em all last year and yesterday inspected and cleaned em up for this year and they still feel like new. The only bad thing is the bearing is so big that unless you really space the bottom out i have some clearance problems with my lower bars. I guess it's just one less thing for me to mass with that way! LOL! But overall I have been very happy with them.

[This message has been edited by duece (edited February 09, 2005).]

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted February 09, 2005 10:05 PM  
Duece,
Those are the same cages I have. I have the same problem with the lower bars. I built a plug for the lower LR the other day and when I put the short bar on it, it hit the cage because of the angle in the bar. Check those cages by trying to twist them top to bottom. Mine rock back and forth but like I said they still seem to work good.

duece
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 28
posted February 10, 2005 07:17 AM  
Mine have no rock in em-65 nights of racing last year. About half way through last season I unhooked my bars and rotated them and took a grease needle and pumped some fresh grease into the bearing. Don't know if it helped but it sounded like a good idea.I run the plugs in my car (DW-9) and I pretty much have to leave the lower links in the bottom hole or if i raise them on the chassis i'm afraid the ring that holds the bearing will hit the trailing arm when it get up on the bars. Iguess like everything else ya have to take the good with the bad.Aside from the clearance issue i am very happy with them.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted February 10, 2005 07:46 AM  
We made a bent lower bar to cure that problem of the big bearing of the A1. Can use all 3 holes plus we added another one up.

The cages may feel alright in the shop but its hard to tell what they do on the track. I think being so narrow with only 1 bearing they get a lot of side load on them and thats what wears them out. Ours had play in them even when they were new. You might not be able to feel the bind or tough spot in the shop but it could happen in the track. Also I have talked to guys who ran the LR spring behind with A1 cages and they said the cageas cant handle all the extra load on them. Maybe others have better experience.

Chad
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 269
posted February 10, 2005 03:10 PM  
I used to run the A-1's but wasn't happy with the style of the bearing (single row round ball bearing). The cage had a lot of rock in it. I search out many different birdcages before settling on the BSB's. They're a quality piece. I got mine with double run of needle bearings (they weren't listed on the web page or cataloge at the time, not sure if they are now). The only problem I've had is the single shear plate bending/twisting on hooked-up and rough tracks (the upper bar has lots of angle and if the car bounces, it tends to twist the mounting plate). However, I would buy them again, they are so free it's noticeable when you bounce the chassis.

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