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Author Topic:   Imca rules out today!!!!
Istock66
unregistered Total posts: 357
posted November 18, 2004 05:43 PM           send a private message to racerwilson   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Emphasis remains on driver safety
VINTON, Iowa (Nov. 18) – Changes and clarifications in I.M.C.A. rules for 2005 start with the health and continued well being of the driver.
Fire retardant shoes will be required for competitors in all classes, while 16x20-inch window nets become mandatory for the Modifieds, Late Models, Stock Cars, Hobby Stocks and SportMods.
“Requiring fire retardant shoes just makes sense. It fits right in with the requirements we make for drivers’ firesuits, gloves and neck braces,” I.M.C.A. Vice President of Operations Brett Root said. “There continues to be too many problems in the past with arm restraints, when drivers weren’t hooking them up or simply weren’t wearing them properly, and that’s why we decided to require the window nets.”
“We take safety rules and the safety of our members very seriously,” he added. “We have some of the most stringent safety rules of any sanctioning body in the sport.”
Rules for next season were released today (Thursday) with publication of the monthly I.M.CA. newsletter.
New rule books will be mailed to drivers after they apply for 2005 competitor’s licenses.
Rule sheets for the different divisions will also be available at upcoming trade shows, including this weekend’s Parts Peddler event in Syracuse, N.Y., and at other swap meets and auctions attended by I.M.C.A. officials.
One of the most visible changes in the rules will be seen in the Stock Car division, as 1988-96 front wheel drive Cutlass, Grand Prix, Lumina, Regal and Monte Carlo bodies will be allowed on 1978-87 GM frames.
Gasoline with any percentage of ethanol blend is nixed in the Late Models, Stock Cars and Hobby Stocks.
“Ethanol blended gas throws off test results in post-race tech,” Root explained. “We can’t tell if the fuel has a 10 percent ethanol or a 25 percent alcohol blend, so we’re eliminating gas with ethanol altogether.”
Scalloped ring gears are out for the Modifieds and Stock Cars. Modified, Stock and SportMod drivers also have one more season to use up wheels with the old-style silver stickers before they are disallowed.
Changes to note in the Modified division include the allowance of aluminum or steel rear coil over kits, no chains or cables in the rear suspension and a minimum panhard bar length.
SportMod drivers will have their choice of three different two barrel carburetors. The stabilizing wing (or spoiler) also comes off in 2005.
“For the past seven or eight years, we’ve been restructuring our rules to make them easier to understand. We have eliminated what we felt were unnecessary words to make the rules shorter,” Root said. “That process continued again with the 2005 rules. We also made revisions to the Modified and SportMod drawings that will hopefully make specs easier for drivers and car builders to understand.”

Istock66
unregistered Total posts: 357
posted November 18, 2004 05:45 PM           send a private message to racerwilson   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
I cant believe how many changes they make every year. Ive only been around IMCA for 2 years and wow..

The no more scalloped ring gear rule, caught me off guard to say the least, I know they are for sale in town here for 119.00 and even in Ames for 130.00.. which is cheaper than any richmond ring set.


nut3d
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 331
posted November 18, 2004 05:57 PM  
what do they mean by the coil over kits. are they talking bout a coil over shock or the elimintor??

orange2mod
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 113
posted November 18, 2004 06:54 PM  
What do they mean by scalloped ring gear?

Istock66
unregistered Total posts: 113
posted November 18, 2004 07:04 PM           send a private message to orange2mod   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
you can run a coil over kit, they will go on pro 96 series shocks, bilsteins, etc.

its a kit and snap ring that goes on the shock to put a small spring on it..

scalloped gears are lightened, they only cost 120-140 now but I guess thats too much. how many guys have all their 3rd members in lw allready, 9-10 set ups no good, wow that is smart, out of the blue.


gooville
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 1
posted November 18, 2004 08:11 PM  
Anyone know what the min. length is for the panhard bar ?

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 6243
posted November 18, 2004 08:25 PM  
What are the advantages of running a coil over kit? What is the min. on the pan hard bar? Also I have a question to all that ran IMCA tracks last year. Did any tech check for roller cams either before or after a race? How did they do it? Was anybody illegal? The track I ran at as far as I know did not check for rollers. I may be wrong, but I never heard of anybody getting checked!!!!!!!!!!!

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted November 18, 2004 09:33 PM  
why the coil overs... that just means that the guy that has a good variety of springs and a chassis to accept all the current springs is going to have to sell them all.. that is if the coil over setup is faster

sdracer12
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 180
posted November 18, 2004 10:37 PM  
I believe the coilover kits that are legal take a 5" spring, not the small diameter springs like the latemodels.

Does anyone know if 13" tall springs will still fit, or do we have to go to 11" tall springs?

[This message has been edited by sdracer12 (edited November 18, 2004).]

NJantz
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 755
posted November 19, 2004 06:19 AM  
Gooville- on another website I saw the mod was going to require a 19" panhard and their sportmod would be 26". So not sure if that is just rumor or fact.

That change will cost guys some cash if they have to alter their chassis any and have to take it to the builder to get it done.

Just another rule that won't get teched is all that is. Kind of like the roller cam rule. And you can now add the lightened ring gears in that category also.

I'm glad I sold my mod.

chapa73
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 169
posted November 19, 2004 06:45 AM  
sounds like another stupid rule.Im glad there isnt any IMCA tracks in Oklahoma,if they went with those stupid rules then I would sell my mod,Looks like they cost alot of traveling mod drivers a whole lot of money.Kinda stupid I think,Hopefully less drivers will run IMCA and they will get the idea that they are not saving the racer money,just making him have less cash!!

Gotta love it!!

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted November 19, 2004 07:50 AM  
OK a few questions.

The scalloped gears, do they mean the gear themselves cant be lightneded, or are they talking about the sppool cant be the lightweight scalloped design?

ALso panhard length? Maybe I am missing something but why would they put a rule in stipulating langth. 19" barely catches our jbar. Help please....


After posting this i saw on another forum a picture of a ring gear that had been lightened aroudn the outside, and scalloped around ea bolt hole. I guess maybe this is what they are outlawing, not necessarily the lightened perimeter gear?

[This message has been edited by dirtbuster (edited November 19, 2004).]

Dman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 270
posted November 19, 2004 08:29 AM  
Dog house,
Our tracks in Ca. checked for rollers a few times this year.They have us pull the distributor and look at the rear lifters through the dist. hole,Or some cylinder heads have openings around the push rod holes big enough to see the lifters below.

Dman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 270
posted November 19, 2004 09:08 AM  
I'm all for getting rid of the "shorty" panhard bars.Alot of us are tired of the "shorty" guys running in to us because they push so bad they can't steer the car without using the whole track.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted November 19, 2004 09:28 AM  
I like the idea of coil-over kits,i get tired of dealing with them dm** sliders, and buying new ones all the time. Plus your standard springs will still be usable when you mount the spring on housing. Double bonus.

I hope UMP will consider this change as well.


twister
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 23
posted November 19, 2004 11:53 AM  
A shorty bar doesnt necessarily make your car roll over and pull wheelies, push, etc. If your car does do that stuff it is the placement of the rear roll center and the front roll center.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted November 19, 2004 12:34 PM  
A properly tuned short bar wont behave badly as many people think. The problem comes when people try to go too extreme with it.

Again why should IMCA stipulate the length of the panhard bar. Whats next, rules on 4 bar lengths, pullbar angles, etc. I hate to say it but with the chain rule, the brake arm/pullbar rule and now the panhard rule it sounds like they are targeting cars like the Skyrocket or similar. I thought thats why they had the sport mod class was so they could put more stipulations on the whole car, not try and convert the existing mod class.


andykmod
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 351
posted November 19, 2004 02:08 PM  
From what i understand the lw gears are legal,It,s the gears with the material cut out near the bolt holes on the ring gear. As for the no chains and cables i guess we all have to show up with STRAPS!!!!! I have not heard what the min is on the panhard bar but what a joke.Why should they dictate the size of a bar,maybe everybody will have to run the same length in 06' and have to be imca approved.m$$$y in their pockets. What next.......a 48 max rear percent,multi leafs only,and legaly blind drivers. When will the stupidity end??????

Racer111
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 259
posted November 19, 2004 03:07 PM  
The coilovers deal is good.Coilovers wont be any faster,you just get rid of the $150.00 sliders.I would assume there going to the small coils.I have never seen a 5inch coilover kit.But IMCA will probably make you run a speacial kit for the 5s.Suspension lenghs are stupid.QC would be nice.Im glad we got rid of IMCA years ago.To much BS.

hiredgun
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 78
posted November 19, 2004 03:31 PM  
AFCO MAKES A % INCH KIT AND I AM SURE OTHERS WILL NOW FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIN

donslink1
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 318
posted November 19, 2004 03:35 PM  
The stupidity will end when I.M.C.A is out of the picture.

socaldirtmod
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 19
posted November 19, 2004 06:44 PM  
i was milling around the tech area after the Vegas race, since i came up a couple short in the B and didnt make the A, and heard a past national champion talking with Tom from IMCA about the upcoming changes, didnt here the gear thing mentioned... dont really understand the down side of the since the LW option is cheap now days? As previously touched on in the thread the longer panhard is to settle the cars down for a better show? opions may vary... and obviously the coil overs to delete the dreaded eliminator bind and failure which is just a matter of time. Chains Cables rule to eliminate the "slack" potential and grey area between having both pull/lift bars. Before i get flamed, not supporting/condeming changes, just reporting what i heard...

DPORT60
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 29
posted November 19, 2004 07:16 PM  
SHENANNIGANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fordsblow
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 46
posted November 20, 2004 03:29 PM  
I just got the 2005 Modified rules today at the Parts Peddler trade show in Syracuse, NY. Here's the main changes :

Fire retardant shoes are required. Driver's side window net 16"x20" minimum required.

The minimum panhard length is 19" measured center to center.

They are also allowing $IMCA$ approved aftermarket lower control arms.

You can have steel/aluminum coil-over kits on the rear only but must conform to the shock and spring rules from before ( 4.5" min. OD spring, no threaded body shocks).

No scalloped ring gears.

All wheels must have imca approved decal and wheel manufaturer decal. No silver $IMCA$ approved decals after January 1, 2006.

No stud girdles.

Interior deck slope is now 6" max front to rear.

Ken

andykmod
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 351
posted November 20, 2004 03:29 PM  
I heard 19 inch was the min on panhard-bar on the mods and 26 inch for the b-mods.Center of heim to center of heim.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted November 20, 2004 04:10 PM  
I hadnt heard the no stud girdle yet. What is up with that?? I mean does a stud girdle really cost that much and make that much HP. I didnt think so. I think in the long run it would save racers money in preventing valvetran failures.. but again who knows.

Settle the cars down for a better show?? Again i dont see any reason why IMCA shold be placing rules on bar lengths of any sort. I have to agree with some of teh earlier posts that it sounds like they have something against skyrocket, or copy cars because several of the rules implemented the last few years have directly affected those cars. That or somebody with influence hasnt been able to get the short bar figured out and is pulling some strings to help themselves out. On top of that I just checked to day and our Jbar is just under 19", so I guess thats out as well.

I think the aftermarket lower control arm is a great idea(except the IMCA sticker of course) and is several years past due. The coil over deal is great as well. It just seems like whenever they give a little to help the racer I guess they feel like they have to take back some and thats where the stupid panhard bar and stud girdle rules come from.. who knows.


twister
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 23
posted November 20, 2004 06:09 PM  
I guess it is possible to move in two directions at the same time

donslink1
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 318
posted November 21, 2004 10:40 AM  
So was there anything about not having chains or cables on the rear suspension.
See the thing is, it isnt all about the price of what something cost. IMCA wants equal race cars and put LOTS of money in there pockets. and it is easyier to slow the fast guys down that speed everyone else up. To me the fans want to see fast race cars not slow ones! and everyone is tring to go faster and there slowing us down. They need to be out of the picture.

GRTWallbanger
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 196
posted November 21, 2004 11:14 AM  
No Chains?That would mean you basically cant run a lift bar?????And what about running a chain so the springs dont go flying out if you get hit in the rear?Also i cant believe they would go with a 19inch panard bar?My J bar is 18 and i thought that was about average??

fordsblow
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 46
posted November 21, 2004 11:22 AM  
The new rules state no chains ( except on front of lift bar ) or cables.

Ken

Istock66
unregistered Total posts: 46
posted November 21, 2004 11:35 AM           send a private message to fordsblow   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Fans of any kind of racing want to see close racing, it doesnt matter how fast anyone goes so long as there is close racing.

donslink1
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 318
posted November 21, 2004 11:47 AM  
4 bangers have close racing. is that what you mean. why do you think the stands are full with sprint cars and dirt late models.

FAST!! Thats what people want to see

Istock66
unregistered Total posts: 318
posted November 21, 2004 01:56 PM           send a private message to donslink1   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Yeah thats it.. 4 bangers rule...


Bristol is sold out, yet Darlington is not, by your thinking the cars are going faster at Darlington so it should be sold out...



donslink1
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 318
posted November 21, 2004 04:13 PM  
Bristol is sold out because you can see the whole track. Darlington you only see when they come past you. We can go on forever.
I know what your saying, I just do not like IMCA. It just ***** because they are all over, especialy by me.
Oh ya no offence to the 4 bangers

mod70
unregistered Total posts: 318
posted November 21, 2004 08:25 PM           send a private message to donslink1   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
I run non-scantioned tracks that base their rules on IMCA, but ignore some of the more restrictive ones. I was under the impression that IMCA mods were supposed to restrict the amount of technology used in the engines with the claim rules, even things up by using those G-60 hockey pucks we race on, and leave the suspentions up to the racers to use them to try to get the cars to hook up. When you start restricting the ways that we have available to get that traction, that opens up the door for a huge increase in cost to be competitve. The people with the big budjets will spend the extra money to get the trick parts, and the guys without those funds will drop behind. Lets face it, a simple shorty bar is much less than a J-bar.
You see the same thing in the big leagues, especially F1, where the teams with all the money can work within the rules to find a way around them to achive the same performance and be untouchable, while lesser teams can't afford that kind of research.

nolimit92
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 97
posted November 27, 2004 08:35 PM  
The no stud girdle is the one that got me going. I guess they do not want us spending that extra $55 for a little insurance if we break a stud. Or they dont want us keeping our valve train inline. Good thing I only have 1 for any of the engines I have ever ran in the mod class. And dont forget the ease of setting our valves with em. Guess its back the the allen wrench and 9/16.

Dman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 270
posted November 29, 2004 08:53 AM  
I think the no stud girdle rule will really help enforce the no roller cam rule and keep the RPM down so engines will last longer.That is probably their intention. Lower valve spring tensions cut down on the RPM you can run.Maybe thats good.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted November 29, 2004 09:13 AM  
Personally i think a stud girdle is cheap insurance whether your turning 6000 or 8000. Whats next a rule limiting spring pressure? Maybe a 2 bolt main cap only rule?


It wont keep the cost down any. In fact it may go up. Instead of using more available parts to build a decent 355 (for instance) and turn it higher rpms, racers will start building 406, 421, 434 to make more torque but not have to turn them very hard. With those engines you still have to buy very good parts to keep them together even if you dotn turn them very hard.

Istock66
unregistered Total posts: 2007
posted November 29, 2004 07:03 PM           send a private message to dirtbuster   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Next will be roller tip only like the stock cars.

Oh then if people build lots of 400s, no 400 blocks, just like the stock cars..


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