Visit The Dirt Forum for More Information

Author Topic:   What's Up With Everyone Going Back To HEI
jrf3
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 28
posted November 04, 2004 07:50 AM  
Was just wondering if anyone had the inside scoop on why a lot of people are going back to an HEI distributor and going away from a MSD box????

rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted November 04, 2004 07:55 AM  
beats me man, i love my msd and even have an msd distributor.
i had 2 hei distributors just explode at the weights and pins even though they were welded and 1 was a good racing after market peice. couldnt time her right , looked at the weights and found pins a snapped both times. i think they just cant take the 7000 rpms we put in them.
they are ok up to about 5000 rpms but after that forget it, not reliable and not accurate

racin parts is for racin man.
go fast get sideways go fast again.!!!

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted November 04, 2004 08:05 AM  
thats the most uneducated post i've ever seen
the hei is a lot simplier to fix at the track if you were to fry a module, no box to worry about, makes the same hp if not more in some occasions, just make sure you get a high quality one, like the msd hei... thats all we'll run.. we picked up4 horse on the dyno over the regular msd

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted November 04, 2004 08:11 AM  
Some classes I know are requiring HEI setups so maybe that is why some people are swithcing, but i dont know.

We have never had trouble with anything with our MSD box or distributor. I would take it any day over an HEI setup no matter who made it.

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1875
posted November 04, 2004 08:15 AM  
most late models have gone to a msd box and distributor set up. i will probally change to one, over a worn out chevy distributor.
i agree that a dui high output distributor is a good piece, but alot of lates are going to the msd box and msd distributor.
also many tracks have claims on msd boxes now, and the tracks look over the boxes more now than they used to searching for that all mighty tc.

rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted November 04, 2004 08:51 AM  

msd makes a very good product , everthing they make works very well and is backked by a excellent guarantee,

my last post was from experience and that is education.
i think the msd hei is a lot more simple and i agree with you,at least on that and if i were to switch back and look for a reliable one then thats the only one i would use.


quote:
Originally posted by Xtreme12x:
thats the most uneducated post i've ever seen
the hei is a lot simplier to fix at the track if you were to fry a module, no box to worry about, makes the same hp if not more in some occasions, just make sure you get a high quality one, like the msd hei... thats all we'll run.. we picked up4 horse on the dyno over the regular msd


sleepy 1h
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 63
posted November 04, 2004 08:56 AM  
I guess you shouldn't weld on them, I been using MSD HEI's for about 10 years now, and other than a module going bad once,I've never had any trouble. And FYI welding of the weights is an old direct drive racecar thing, from back in the late 60's and 70's for sprintcars.sleepy
quote:
Originally posted by rpm20:
beats me man, i love my msd and even have an msd distributor.
i had 2 hei distributors just explode at the weights and pins even though they were welded and 1 was a good racing after market peice. couldnt time her right , looked at the weights and found pins a snapped both times. i think they just cant take the 7000 rpms we put in them.
they are ok up to about 5000 rpms but after that forget it, not reliable and not accurate

racin parts is for racin man.
go fast get sideways go fast again.!!!



rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted November 04, 2004 10:37 AM  
hey sleepy, dont be silly, we didnt weld the weights , we welded the stupid pins that hold the assembly to the plates. they kept popping out under rpm loads.

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy 1h:
I guess you shouldn't weld on them, I been using MSD HEI's for about 10 years now, and other than a module going bad once,I've never had any trouble. And FYI welding of the weights is an old direct drive racecar thing, from back in the late 60's and 70's for sprintcars.sleepy


vosevichs
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 78
posted November 04, 2004 10:58 AM  
We've ram stock HEI with stock module. Timing was 2 bouncy and it cut out after 5500 rpm. Other guys had better luck with theirs. That DUI HEI is a sweet set-up. Switched to MSD Box & Dist. timing much more stable but still a little bouncy and ran all the way to the Rev limiter. Never had a problem with the box. Welded on the car with out disconnecting it a few times. This year thinking of going to a crank trigger. Much more acurate and no bouncing of the timing.

------------------
Scott Vosevich
RDBoyz Racing

rpm20
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 338
posted November 04, 2004 11:03 AM  
i was reading, i think circle track a while ago about running a piggyback ignition system with an msd box and hei dist, then a crank trigger ignition to be a sort of legal (term used loosely) traction control.
the hei was to start the car and the trigger i believe ran in a retarded state to control slippage. anyone else read that ???

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted November 04, 2004 11:23 AM  
Sure did, but all you could do is switch from the crank trigger, to the distributor. Set one up a 36* and the other at say 33* and if the driver needed it he could swith to the 33* ignintion to loose some power.

Its not something that would kick in under slipage. At least thats what i got out of it.

NJantz
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 755
posted November 04, 2004 02:11 PM  
I've experienced the same thing with 2 of my HEI's. The pins would get loose and then fly apart and I even welded the things. And yes the timing would bounce around. So enough was enough and I made the switch.

sleepy 1h
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 63
posted November 05, 2004 02:01 AM  
When your timing bounces around it normaly is caused by the timing chain your using. If you switch to a gear drive you don't have that problem. I have seen a engine run with a clear timing cover and you would be amazed how much the chain jumps. And remember if you are using stock parts to race ,they will only perform as well as they should under NORMAL driving conditions, not racing rpms. (off idle to 5000 rpm) sleepy

NJantz
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 755
posted November 05, 2004 05:56 AM  
Had a brand new Cloyes tru roller chain and it still bounced. Perhaps the variation is caused by the play between the distributor gear and cam?

vosevichs
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 78
posted November 05, 2004 06:55 AM  
The bouncing is caused by excessive clearence between the gear and the cam. Or the slop in the distributer. HEI's usually have bushings in them and get pretty sloppy. I think they are putting bearings in those DUI units. MSD dist. have bearings. And we bought the oversized bronze gear to solve the clearence problem

------------------
Scott Vosevich
RDBoyz Racing

[This message has been edited by vosevichs (edited November 05, 2004).]

Ego Racing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 724
posted November 05, 2004 07:32 AM  
Sleepy is right on with the chain. ANY chain drive on a cam is going to be loose or it would wear into the bearing while running. The weight of the chain and the slack in it cause the timing to move. If you see a motor running with a chain drive that is not tight it will have a S in the chain. The drive force is not on the back side of the drive but in the force side which is where the S is being produced.
That is why CUP teams use a belt drive. Less friction and moving parts than a gear and you can run the belt tight and it will not S on the force side. The drive belt allows you to run it tighter and not wear out the bearings.

chapa73
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 169
posted November 05, 2004 07:35 AM  
We had to run a 'stock' hei on the factory stock,I ran a super coil and a dyna module,the same one thats in the DUI,I turned 7200 every week,and never have had problems.
I run that same dist. in my mod and have had no problems.
Guess it just depends on your luck I guess.
I havnt had any problems,and dont plan on changing.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted November 05, 2004 07:38 AM  
Chains can, maybe usually do cause some odd harmonics in the valve train at high RPM. Which can cause failures of various things

Thats why all cup teams run the belt drives, you loose the harmonics and the sloppy timing.

Only thing that ***** is the price tag of the jesel belt drive deal. They last along time thou. Gear drives are good for the timing deal, but still can make some odd harmonics and cause issues. Although less than a chain, usually.

Dman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 270
posted November 05, 2004 08:30 AM  
Put on a belt drive,Yeah right! Just jack up the price of the mods some more.Chains are fine.Been running them for years no problem with harmonics.Cup guys turn there Engines over 8000 R's for hours, not us. Get real!

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted November 05, 2004 08:56 AM  
I'm in the same boat as you, we dont run em, cant afford the belt drive either. I'm just posting what i was told from the engine builder, he wanted one in our new engine, but i told him i cant pull hundo's out of my ***.

Settled for a nice chain, cloyes. I dont for see any issues, but he said its more possable without the belt drive. Such is life.

sleepy 1h
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 63
posted November 05, 2004 09:01 AM  
Dman, Ease up, What we're trying to explain on here is the problems that people might be having. If you can't afford the parts then fine, but don't run down people that can. sleepy

dirtywrench13
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 324
posted November 05, 2004 12:03 PM  
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT A DUI WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO, IT SAVES WEIGHT, USES THE SAME AMPERAGE, AND ITS ALL IN ONE UNIT. I'D RATHER HAVE A DUI FOR THOSE REASONS. NOT MY MONEY THOUGH, IT CAN BE A NIGHTMARE TO FIGURE OUT TROUBLES IN A MSD IF YOU DONT HAVE A FULLY STOCKED PARTS TRUCK AT THE TRACK. THE MSD HEI WOULD WORK ALSO I GUESS.

Dman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 270
posted November 05, 2004 03:19 PM  
Sorry,didn't get my coffee this morning.

marshalr
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 148
posted November 09, 2004 10:12 AM  
Anybody ever try the "little black box" shown in speedway's flyer ?
Says even with battery down to 9volts, it keeps 17.5 volts to the distributor. Sounds good. Sounds good if it really does that. Anybody ?

wissota3x
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 86
posted November 09, 2004 09:35 PM  
Spark jump can also be caused by too much end play in the distributor not just the timing chain slack.Been there,done that.

chomme
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 300
posted November 10, 2004 09:38 AM  
We have ran the MSD hei, DUI hei, hei with accel coil, hei with napa coil. All of our distributors were locked. We ran the MSD hei's for three years and never had a problem. Then we sent in our distributors last winter and had two modules fry which burnt pistons. When you would turn on the ignition switch smoke would come out of the distributor. Also had another friend who sent his in at the same time and he two burnt pistons. We sent them back and MSD fixed them but they had no answers. Then we bought a DUI and put their lockout plate in it. The timing would gradually retard as you revved the motor and on the track the motor would miss or pop through the exhaust once in awhile. Then we replaced the dui module, put napa module in, accel module and all were the exact same. Then we put a msd hei module in the dui distributor and the timing never moved a degree and the motor ran night and day difference on the track. For the rest of the year we ran the msd hei modules and didnt have any problems. Msd is coming out with a new hei module real soon that has a rev control and is not voltage sensative. We are either going to try that or go to the box. Which box seems to works best? Has anyone tried those expensive black HVC msd boxes?

dgb
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 70
posted November 11, 2004 12:26 PM  
I had the exact same experience as twister with my HEIs. The msd module was the only one that didn't vary. It's kinda spendy for an ignition module, but I like mine.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted November 11, 2004 01:00 PM  
So why not jsut get a 6A or 6AL box and be done with it. No more messing with any of the HEI stuff. Plus it keeps it away from the motor where it stays cooler, dry(depending on where you put it) and out of the way.

tcmod
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 56
posted November 14, 2004 01:44 PM  
MSD isn't rocket science, it's just very good stuff. You have a distributor (pick up coil), coil, and a "box" (module). The HEI has pick up coil, coil, and module. Don't see no need for a parts truck at the track if you run an MSD. I would not give mine up. They do offer a "box" for circle track that is designed for the vibration that dirt track racing produces (it works great in my mod.). JMO

jrf3
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 28
posted November 16, 2004 12:15 PM  
I wasn't trying to start an arguement. I was simply trying to find someone that knows why a lot of people are now running hei versus msd box. I noticed quite a few hei's at Boone this year.

Back to the Archives