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Author Topic:   UMP "B" Mod ??
Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted November 02, 2004 07:42 AM  
(Started a new thread about UMP rules, kinda on the lines of the IMCA thread.)

You UMP guys out there and others, you think a B mod class would help in UMP and / or IMCA ?

I was thinking a 360 cubes max, no rollers, 23* heads only and steel. Stk blk, no dry sump. Also would it be possable to limit the RPM's you can turn? is it possable?

Limting revs, i think would be an awesome way to keep spec type engine costs down. Very hard to do thou, not quite sure how to accomplish it wihtout the drivers being able to cheat around it with toggle switches etc.

Also for UMP have the B mods run the Hoosier "H" (Hard) compound tires all the way around.

Leave the A mods alone, the way they are now, but add this new class for transitional drivers and low budget racers.

What do ya think? I plan to call UMP and suggest this (for what good it will do) if it is practical and not drive up prices. Because i know that when you begin to spec engines it usually drives prices up (unintentionally, but it does) and the reason for the "low budget class gets lost. Just like Mods have gotten now.

brownstone
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted November 02, 2004 08:10 AM  
I am all for it costs are WAY out of hand in UMP. Also if UMP would do something about that garbage UMP tire, I am sick of hoping it will mount up with big air pressure.

And yes I have heard all of the remedies using different lubes etc. The bottom line is that I NEVER have this much trouble mounting IMCA tires, no matter what wheel brand that I buy.

mod2_x
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 38
posted November 02, 2004 08:49 AM  
Sounds like the rules we run under for the most part. We can run medium tire but not hoosier we have to run the american racers. You can check our rules out at http://www.mckeancountyraceway.com/new_page_5.htm

mod2_x
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 38
posted November 02, 2004 08:51 AM  
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[This message has been edited by mod2_x (edited November 02, 2004).]

36modracer
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 126
posted November 02, 2004 11:16 AM  
you can limit revs by installing a mandated chip in the msd box. our local track has thought of b mods, 355 rule, steel heads, (tranny rule up in air, 3or 4 speed or powerglide only)6000 rpm chip and hard tires with a weight limit of 2500 or something to that effect. even mentioned having leaf spring or 3 link set ups only. then when they have the tech area they pull the chips to check them, check steel heads and anything else needed. they even had said they wouldnt put a motor cube limit on because with the 6000 rpm limit and hard tires it wouldnt do much good for a beast of a motor anyway. i think theres lots of ways to make it work. works good for the beginning guys moving up, competition a bit closer for less money and get your feet wet without getting run over all the time.

brownstone
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted November 02, 2004 12:47 PM  
this class sounds like the deal if the rules can be policed. I worry that some would find a way to by pass the chip. other than that I am all for it.
The Amercian Racer MED, is a good tire it has the compound of the Hoosier with sidewall simular to the IMCA tire. IF only UMP would make them legal.
But hoosier has got them in there pocket.

pbrcowboy2
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 380
posted November 02, 2004 09:20 PM  
if its a dmall null ring u dont need a msd setup. i race a b-mod we leaf with no torque arm or 3link only setups. 360 cubic inch limits 9.1 compression stock 3 or 4 or powerglides, and NO MSD BOXES...our cars fly around this little track!!!!!!...we are policed real close and everything runs pretty good....we are still dang near just as fast tooo!!!

fastow
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 168
posted November 02, 2004 11:01 PM  
This one that there is a lot of debate on. Here at our track there saying there going to the crate motor deal and 4 barrel carbs that means a new engine and carb sounds expesive right off the bat and I can't see anything but problems long term, and expense short term. Heres a couple thoughts that ran thru my head. I like the simple rear suspension rules 2 springs 2 shocks three links or leafs. Saves money even if you leave half of your 4 link up on the shelf. The OEM carb has been a dumb rule from the beginning, make it stock holley 390 or 500 2 barrel right off the shelf, and most likely would less expensive than a comparable OEM carb. Far as engine rules we cannot ask our tracks to find more tech guys capable of policeing our engines. How about putting on restricter plates how expesive could it be to put on a plate I would bet a lot less than rev limiter and easier to police. Another Idea would be have like three different plates if you have a higher point average you get just a little smaller plate the guys that can't seem to do good and have a less of a point average give them a little bigger plate and so on, that and maybe tweaking the line up maybe by putting the higher point average\smaller plate in the front and bigger plates lesser point average on back and so on. JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT LOL

JT54
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 170
posted November 03, 2004 12:17 AM  
The plate deal would be interesting....but I bet that If you allowed the guys that just cant get it togeather a larger plate they would go slower......I notice alot of the guys in the back that are crying about guys running big engines also lack control of their right foot.....sometimes you got to slow down to get fast.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted November 03, 2004 08:05 AM  
Restrictor plates is a good idea, although would a restrictor plate engine be cheaper to build?

I know Nextel cup car / teams put alow of time and research into there plate motors to **** out all the power they can. It may be come the same drill in Mods.

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1875
posted November 03, 2004 08:50 AM  
i would be afraid of the plate deal also. i have heard that in imca lates, that since they limit the carb and heads, so the next thing they went to is light wieght parts, they just spent a ton on light wieght motors. so you will need some weight rules, like 48 lb crank, and no titanium in motor except for retainers.

what about a 4 foot lexan spoiler on the back??? that would slow them down.

but on a serius note. i think the best way to calm them down would be a 3 link solid pull bar only rule, and both links lr and rr must be over 16 inches long. and a j bar rule. that would keep the cars calm and not over the drivers heads(since most will jsut be starting), and it would be a very very simple car to set up. alot of guys say three links and leafs, but leafs wrap up, and you have to get new ones often to keep them at thier best. so this adds to cost and hooking up.
then go like 500cfm out ofthe box holler gas carb. a untouched heads and intake. maybe even spec a power plus or whatever that cheap intake is. solid lift cam only, inspection holes in oil pan.

tires, may regroove only along stock grooves, so then the low budget guys can reuse them, we run out of tread before we use up some tires it seems.
limit revs to 6600, if you limit to 6000 alot of motors even little ones would be doggish.
crate motors cost too much and are not reliable enough, i know i know this is a debate in its self, but would turn many people off to them right there.
about plates, dont they hurt motors very easy, i mean i am not super familar with them, but i would be afraid that it would be easier to misstune them and blow them up, because most of us are not super tunners from nascar.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted November 03, 2004 07:30 PM  
Zero I am not up on the plate motors that much either but it would look to me it wouldn't be any diferent than running with smaller carb, intake, or headers they all decrease flow. If you ended up with guys with all the light wieght stuff useing the plate and running off with the show then it would be time to tweak the plate like I said giving the faster guys smaller plates or slower guys up to no plates.
The idea is to make the playing field more even and costing each racer less money without a bunch of time spent inspecting engines. That sport mod thats another thing how can that be a economy class when you have to buy all those junk yard parts that are gettin harder to get and more expensive by the day as in stock upper control arms and stock mount shocks even if someone give you a old used mod you couldn't use it cause of all the changes .

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1875
posted November 04, 2004 11:46 AM  
i mean any front suspension, but solid three link rear, so you can run an older dw, or bms, or whatever you can find.
about all the builders that i have heard said that plates, sometimes cause odd things to happen to the motor. on dyno's and stuff. that would be the only downside to it, i see what you mean though about finding a way.

my uncle for a long time wanted to run 4.3 or even like a 3.4L chevy v 6 motor mod, like a spec type class, similar to mods, but little bitty motors. then just have some decent rules on wieght for them(rotating wieght).
or 305 motors, with rotating wieght rules, like stock crank, and a small head on it. you could get bottom ends for next to nothing, change the pistons and go.
here is an opt ruleion you all will laugh at but would solve all the motor problems. slant six mopars, you buy one engine for a lifetime...haha. i am not sure you can blow on of those up sometimes.

[This message has been edited by zeroracing (edited November 04, 2004).]

DPORT60
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 29
posted November 04, 2004 04:30 PM  
I ran a Bmod at Dubuque, IA speedway. The engine rules were based on car weight, 364ci and smaller 2450#, bigger than 364 2750#. I also had to have stock casting, steel heads, a 500cfm 2bbl gas carb and a 3spd or powerglide trans. Other tracks in the area allow any steel head, the same carb, no cube limit but must weigh 2750#. Those tracks are on the American Racer G60 tire also. I think the bmod class is good, I had never raced anything and had a blast. I think a cube limit with a 2450# weight rule is the way to go, maybe a compression limit too.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted November 04, 2004 08:00 PM  
Racer17j Thats the first I heard that I am not that up on that class just what I read on the net. But that front end deal threw a big red flag at me. There is a lot of good ideas here for bmod class but like I have said before to make it work the rules have to be kept simple without a lot of tech. Thats why the claim rule was so neat racers could police themselves without a bunch of tech but the claim thing I believe has run its course and we do need something new Thats kinda the idea behind the plate deal if a guy was moving from a say limited late model or something you could even use a big ol 430 just know coming into the game that if you start going right to the front with your deal your going to get plated to even out the field. Agian making it where we can run what we have but yet still making it an even playing field without making it a cookie cutter crate motor class.

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted November 05, 2004 07:31 AM  
Good Idea's i see so far:

Suspension limits (rear):

3-Link (No sliders, springs on housing)
Leafs (no panard bar, no pull bar)

Motor limits:

Cubic inch limit, 365 MAX ?
Compression limit, 11 to 1 ?
Transmission limits, External clutch, or P-Glide?
Steel head limits, Stock castings only? no porting?
2 Bbl carb limit Spec holley? untouched?
No MSD's, HEI only?

Tires:

Spec hard compound tires, all 4 corners


Any other idea's? I plan on writing a report about this and sending it to UMP this winter asap. So if you have ideas please post them.

Not sure if the report will help, but i am going to try. Tired of sitting around and complaining about it, and going to get involed.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted November 05, 2004 07:27 PM  
thats pretty much it they have a single disc clutch and 9-1 compression.lower compression lets you run pump gas which is 1/2 the price of racing fuel and isn't as hard on the bottom end we have 3 classes running 360/9-1 rules at my track think we has 3-4 blown motors all year out of 20 nites and 75 cars a nite. i don't like restrictor plates i see them as pointless in dirt track racing if everybody is running the same cid/comp , carb and intake then thats restrictor enough a fast guy with out one is still gonna be fast with one everybody needs to be on pretty much the same deal to be fair.i do not like if you run this you have to run that rules every body runs a 350 they are the cheapest to rebuild as long as you only use stock parts a stock crank and reconditioned rods will last for ever if you treat them right in a 9-1 class. in the last 8 years i have spent a little over 1500 on 2 motors and the only reason it was on 2 is because i didn't get all the water out last year and it cracked the block so i bought a long block for 500 and put a re ring kit in it

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