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Author Topic:   Crate Engines
powerglides
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 374
posted October 07, 2004 06:36 AM  
Who is running the GM crate engines and what are your thoughts?

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 07, 2004 07:41 AM  
some of the tracks in the northeast are running GM crates in the pro stock division and give them a weight advantage...They are competitive,in fact one just one the track championship at Albany/Saratoga....There is also the use of "crate heads"as well as a 500 hp Jasper crate motor. Not much use there though(first year for both) .

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1875
posted October 07, 2004 08:27 AM  
they cost too much for a motor that does not last long.
local asphalt track runs them in almost every class, and they cost alot to buy, then they blow them up left and right.
if they ever go to crate motor mods, i will go to latemodels or just touring series mods.
i built my little motor for about 1500-1600 bucks, i am building a 383 with a few used parts for about 2500-3000. will you sell me a crate motor that is over 500 hp and will last 2-3 seasons? for that much money?
i think crate motors would be the major downfall of racing if they are mandated mroe places.

KAY
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 1
posted October 07, 2004 09:52 AM  
Yeah, you're so competitive at warrensburg where the motors are run. Jason...

Crate motors would be awsome and keep me from buying my $12,000 motor. What's the 1 season crate motor cost???

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted October 07, 2004 09:55 AM  
There is a LM series that runs in the south that uses crate motors. Fastrax series i think its called. I hear its pretty popular down there.

Not to sure about longevtivity on crate motors, but i do know that alot of the big teams abuse crate motors. Basicly they buy bulk and look for the best motor, and the smaller guys get what they can afford.

In Crate motors 5 to 10 hp means winning and losing sometimes.

ratracer10
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 141
posted October 07, 2004 10:44 AM  
Crate motors are very durable and will last a long time. However, if you use them in ways not intended by over gearing and running to many rpm then of course they will not last, neither will and other motor. That is why they explicitly say 5800 rpm max.

------------------
- When in doubt, hit the gas.

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1875
posted October 07, 2004 11:21 AM  
seem to run about the same as you kay with my little motor in it.

[This message has been edited by zeroracing (edited October 07, 2004).]

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1875
posted October 07, 2004 12:07 PM  
hey kay,
why were you in the yellow and black car at the jayhawk, looked like the 17i car i thought(did not look close). are you changing to thier chasis next year?

dirtywrench13
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 324
posted October 07, 2004 03:10 PM  
LETS FACE IT FOLKS CRATE MOTORS ARE THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE. THE LAST FRONTIER, SO TO SPEEK, AT KEEPING SOME CONTROLL OF COST AND SAFETY OF YOU THE DRIVER. SOUNDS SILLY DONT IT. MANY TRACKS ARE USING IT, AND MOST WILL FOLLOW IN THE FUTURE.

dogwalker
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 65
posted October 08, 2004 08:40 AM  
I hope not! There's a guy sponsored by a "spec" engine company at our track and he's blown more of those things than the entire field. He is competitive.....when the engine holds together. To me it's not work the money. I would rather have one of my backyard (okay shop, but you get the idea) built motors and run it hard all season or longer.

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 08, 2004 10:36 AM  
The tracks in our area that run the crates..Have loaner engines if something happenes(can you tell they really want these)...They haven't had to loan out one yet in 2 years...they are running 4-barrels and a 5800 rev limiter...there are aonly a few mods running the Jasper engine..but I didn't hear about any problems...It's a 383ci 500hp(dyno proven) It's in the same ballpark of most of our 358 engines..I think they give them a 250lb advantage..They are $7000

superdave
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 280
posted October 08, 2004 12:12 PM  
$10,000 engines throw up all over the track like $3000 engines do. For all the money you spend and improved parts you buy for your motor you push it as far as it will go and then some. $10,000 isn't some lifetime garauntee. It's just a bunch of money that doesn't mean the show will be any better or that your car will be any faster than the other guy who spent $10,000 too.

A crate motor and a rev limiter is just a different challenge. Honestly, people are working a lot and it seems like I have much less time to do things than I used to 20 years ago. I'm more interested in racing a spec or crate motor class because the idea of messing with the engine doesn't really appeal to me anymore. The car is more interesting to me. If I don't have to mess with the motor I can spend more time on the car or non-racing activities.

I find it interesting that people complain about the claim and say the motor doesn't matter, it's the set up and driver that makes the difference. But when you talk about spec or crate motors that would truly show who's got the best set up or driver people cry foul and vow to fight the idea forever. The Checy crate motors are proven pieces but people still control the timing, carb and jetting, fuel and RPM's. You can blow one up if you want to I'm sure.

Good luck,
Superdave

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted October 08, 2004 01:48 PM  
One thing about crate motors i think is over looked is, if everyone is running one then the tuning of said engine is amplified, 10 fold.

Jetting, timing etc etc come into play more so, and will seperate some from the front as well as a well set up car vs a dump truck.

Crate motors or not its not the end all and solve all of racing. Just a new set of problems. Will it be cheaper in the end to help promote more racing is the question?

As well do we want more racers? 1000 to win with 35 to 50 mods in the pits and UMP (open) rules, vs 150 to 200 mods in the pits with crate motors, which one would you choose?

37mod
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 36
posted October 08, 2004 07:03 PM  
The bad thing about crate motors is they say they need a rebuild after twenty nites, what if a racer runs multiple tracks, he will need multiple 5,000 crate motors where as I have repeatedly ran motors 30-35 shows and had no prob. and have had no where near 5,000 in one. If they want to keep cost down have a claim or go to a spec engine. The bottom line is if someone is spending way to much on an engine now to win, they will find ways to cheat and spend more to get the crate engine to run harder.

51racing
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 138
posted October 09, 2004 10:11 AM  
I'm really curious where you get the 20 night idea? I've read in Circle Track magazine that they will often last two seasons, and to me that's more along the lines of 60-80 nights.
I'm looking at getting into a mod for '06 and was thinking about going the spec motor route.

superdave
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 280
posted October 09, 2004 02:03 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Kromulous:
As well do we want more racers? 1000 to win with 35 to 50 mods in the pits and UMP (open) rules, vs 150 to 200 mods in the pits with crate motors, which one would you choose?

35 to 50 mods would be far from the norm for many tracks. Looks to me like promoters are trending back towards fewer classes with more cars per class. Easier on fans and the classes stay full longer.

Good luck,
Superdave

dirtywrench13
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 324
posted October 11, 2004 11:57 AM  
WORST PART ABOUT A CRATE MOTOR IS THE FACT THAT THERES NO GUARANTEE THAT 2 OF THEM ARE BUILT THE SAME. ONE MAY GET A BETTER GRADE OF PARTS AND ONE MAY GET JUNKERS. YOU JUST DONT KNOW.

I'M MORE INCLINED TO LEAN TOWARD THE SPEC. MOTOR THAN A CRATE.

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1875
posted October 11, 2004 01:36 PM  
i dont mind the idea of rules on motors, no roller cams, comp rule, cube rule, even crank weight rule. stuff like that is good ideas. but i dont like the crate motors, teams still build thier own motors, or buy old ones from other racers and rebuild them. as far as 5000 each or 7000 each, that would slideline us for a while. another thing is 5800 rpm max? ever ran a 4 bar mod hooked up, you turn less than 5800 at the end of the straight you will be bogged down off the corner, and another track we run you would be almost idleing in the corner to only turn 5800 rpm. we put in the wrong gear the first time i was there and turned 5800 max, and about 2200 or less. in the corner.

chapa73
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 169
posted October 11, 2004 02:31 PM  
I agree with zero.I know lots folks say "in ya trying t be lw buck,ya in the wrong class'

I spent about 1500 on my 350 for this season,and only problem was I ran over a bumper put a hole in the pan,and from there,the damage started,but I was able run run with the pack,once we got the car in the ball park.

I couldnt afford 7000 for just a motor,Thats more than I spent on my whole mod this year,turn key.

I dont like crate motors,I say to most promotors,do more tech

robhbk24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 372
posted October 11, 2004 02:55 PM  
i agree more tech. we don't need more rules we just need to inforce the ones we have already, that would keep costs down.as much as it is a pain dealing with the tech inspector it would help costs dramaticaly. at oswego in the super stock class a couple of years ago they were doing 3 car random tech every week. or something along those lines. i just remember it being said that every week or so that 3 diff cars would be drawn at random and torn down and checked for legality.

jlfastride
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 135
posted October 12, 2004 09:13 PM  
tech yes, crate no, i can tell you this i beleive. the engine combo is an important part of the set up. you can take one guy that can't keep d40's on the car for 5 laps and he runs right next to a guy that can run them for 12 night. (i have) they b@@ch about tire compounds and i just make them last, same deal 3 year old motor has plenty of power to win.(i've proved that). motor is a setup piece for the car so is tires you take away my tires and cheap motor i can't run with you . is that the idea ?????? i bet you will hear from more on this topic. ps i built my own car and motor on the super cheap. and still out run most guys lap to lap. just can't seem to stay outta trouble in traffic. tia jl

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted October 12, 2004 09:35 PM  
I don't like the idea of crate engines. I run a $2500 388 chevy and I have just as much if not more power than anyone I race with. I guess the guys around my area are pretty much all like me.....BROKE!!! Engines in the mod class is no problem at all around here and we have a $600 engine swap rule, but it hardly ever gets done. Someone posted saying the guys with money will find another way to make power.....well I read an article a few months back about crate engines and Keith Dorton said if everyone mandates the crate engine then he will start manufacturing the sealing bolts. That way he can drill out the factory bolts, do anything inside he wants to and then install new sealing bolts so you couldn't tell it was ever touched. I'm sure his manufactured sealing bolts would carry a hefty price tag. But no I don't like the crate engine deal.

ford5
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 711
posted October 13, 2004 05:43 AM  
If crate engines are ever mandated around here....you will have to pry my cold, dead, fingers off my own engines.
it will ruin racing IMHO
HASN'T DONE MUCH FOR ASA?

Kromulous
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted October 13, 2004 07:09 AM  
After reading alot of posts about engines and various classes, crate motors & spec motors. I am really starting to enjoy the fact that we race under UMP rules.

I think there will be some series pop up with a crate motor rule, or weight break but i hope UMP never goes to anything like that.

Or i would like to see a "B" Mod class in UMP with a spec or crate motor, that might fly, but leave "A" Mod the way it is now.

jlfastride
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 135
posted October 13, 2004 07:16 AM  
well said krom.

rrrrick
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 192
posted October 13, 2004 02:37 PM  
Crate motors and Claiming are the LAZY PROMOTERS Crutch. When Engines get out of hand in a claiming class they ( promoters) point at the drivers and say "you( the drivers) let this get out of hand by not claiming". With a sealed crate motor the promoters tech guy only looks at the "factory" seal and says "everything is still OK".
When you get to a "Spec" engine, someone for the promoter has to inspect parts to insure they are legal. Then the promoter has to deal with penalties for any infraction.


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