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Author Topic:   Standardized Modified Rules
willie
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 34
posted January 12, 2003 06:12 PM  
let's put a claim on the pit crew.

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 6243
posted January 12, 2003 06:28 PM  
Jammin;
I truly feel the transition from the true weekend racer to the ones that have the deep pockets is full blown. I noticied it in the late 70's and this day and time, the top ten out of thirty are the deep pocket racers. Our weekenders are racing for eighth on back with the exception of a lucky night or two.

I don't know how to slow this down. It has also infected the streeters and pure/hobby classes also. There is a guy in area that has 10 grand in a Jr. Mini that pays nothing to win.

The cars need to get back to the basics. No high buck trans, No high tech and high buck suspension, Limited eng rules that are closely teched, carb restrictions,and The length of season. This is most likely not going to happen because of the political implications, but if you want to reduce the cost, it will have to start at the sanctioning body in conjunction with the promoters.

This has nothing to do with making friends or enemys, just keeping the locals in contention and showing up every weekend.

The cost of compition in dollars is going up faster than the national debt and if something isn't done soon, racing will be on a traveling circus type of format. Race here one week, there one week and down there another week, and only the deep pockets will be able to follow the show.

Just my opinion
Jim

awkwardjeff
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 562
posted January 12, 2003 11:11 PM  
Pickels, Being i'm self employed it's been years ago that anyone handed my a paycheck.

I don't have a grudge against people with money.......I do have a problem with wealthy people thinking they can buy there way to the front........I have ruined more equipment from some little rich kid knocking the wheels off my car and his trying to get to the front.......

People that want to spend unlimited amounts of cash to go racing should look at nascar, WoO, Usac, ect. or even a late model at their local track.........

I do make money off these people.....remember I build my own chassis??? so they ask me to build them bumper and nerf bars and fix their bent chassis from time to time.....so I do make a few bucks off them........but I would rather they didn't spoil a class of cars by out classing everyone.....thank you very much.

I went to a racing banquet last night..... I listened to people talk about spending 20-25 thousand dollars for a super stock.....LOL that pays 200 to win.........I guess you guys are right.......things are great with this way of racing........

The only reason I kept talking about motors is because that was my idea and people were tryiing to dis-count it as a valid way of contolling costs.......

I've come up with a better idea......just for those people........and we don't need hockey puck tires. let us make this like go-karts.....NO SUSPENSION.....SOLID ROD WELDED INTO PLACE OF THE SHOCKS........NOW YOUR MOTOR DON'T MATTER, OR YOUR SET-UP....NOW IT'S ALL ON THE DRIVER......THROW YOUR WALLETS AWAY........WE ARE GOING TO SEPORATE THE MEN FROM THE BOYS.........

You like that idea????? me neither

Jeff

autoshop
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 298
posted January 13, 2003 04:23 PM  
Here's one for the mix .Each track run whatever restricted engine size you want but if you have one engine that does not fit the spec (bigger and better)you have to run a restrictor plate for the night...

avenger
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted January 13, 2003 04:54 PM  
Hey willie,I have heard about guys like you,these big teams like yours that have pit crews.I hope to pass hitchhikers on my way to the track,just to have some help.I'm not sure but from the sound of it 36k is in the same boat as I am.

moonshine88
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 5
posted January 13, 2003 05:24 PM  
A LOT OF GOOD THOUGHT PROCESS HAS BEEN GOING ON. HOWEVER, MOST OF THE THINGS MENTIONED, SUCH AS CLAIM, TECHING MOTORS, AND SPEC MOTORS, AND TRACKS CLAIMING MOTORS HAVE NOT WORKED IN THE PAST. SO, WHAT ABOUT LEAVING THE CARS AND CLAIMS THE SAME AND MAKING A RULE FOR EVERYONE TO FOLLOW WHICH IS EASY TO TECH AND NO COST INVOLVED, SUCH AS, AIR--THAT'S RIGHT--AIR. AIR PRESSURE, REAR TIRES, MANDATORY 25 TO 30 LBS AFTER THE RACE, NO EXCEPTIONS. THIS WILL ELIMINATE THE BIG, HIGH COST MOTORS. MAKE DRIVING A CHALLENGE. EASY TO TECH, AND RELATIVELY COST FREE. THIS WAY YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CHANGE ANYTHING ON THE MOTOR AND SUSPENSION WHEN YOU GO TO OPEN SHOW.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 562
posted January 13, 2003 06:51 PM  
what you think they never tried that?? I remember back racing sprint car in Jackson,MN they did that......I don't remember the pressure setting now.,....but they would throw a yellow in the middle of the race and stop a car or two and check right rear......and after the race....you never knew when......

They did it during the race because of people complaining about some crews adding air after the race....

I will agree it would help........I'm not sure it's the answer......I don't believe there is one perfect answer to this problem.

irace74
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 80
posted January 13, 2003 10:41 PM  
I don't think tha one racer will ever be able to police the other which, is the esssence of the claim rule. Suspensions are changing to hook up bigger and badder horsepower. What the average weekly racer needs is a level playing field and parts that will last for a while. What about crate motors? On alky I think they will make good torque and will live for a good long time. A national spec motor where decent parts are used, such that the motor has a good life and a cost of let's say $4000 for the year would be greatly beneficial. The arguement about motors would go away, if the tamper proof bolts are touched, you're dq'd. I personally would like to see such a motor program tried. Yes it will be slower then some of the hogs which we are running now but, the empasis would be on the driver and chassis where it should be and all for the convoluted claim scenarios would go hang.
As another option, IMCA late models went to the 390 carb. In talking with a few engine builders, even when they cheated with cubes, heads and other trickery, the horsepower and torque were largely unaffected. Slows things down and eliminates the need for the big stuff. As an intermediate stopping point what about a choice, big carb- Crate motor, Little carb- open motor. Don't know how it will test out but, might be interesting.

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted January 14, 2003 10:36 AM  
Jammin,
You wouldn't need a claimer if everyone was running the same engine.
Some classes in the northeast are going to crate engines. Granted it puts the crimp on a whole lot of engine builders but $3000 an engine and $1000 -$1500 to freshen it every other year. Tuning,set up and driver would be the key.

superdave
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 280
posted January 14, 2003 12:11 PM  
I like the crate motor idea. Especially the ones where the bolts can't be taken out. You blow up you buy another one. That's what happens now anyway. GM has said they have had few problems with their crate motors. Maybe the track could have an available spare to sell so everyone wouldn't need to keep a spare one.

No electronics. Any carb and exhaust on a crate motor. Engine mounted clutch and OEM tranny. 330 horse Gm crate motor long block sells for $2100.

Check out www.salleechevrolet.com or www.SDPC200.com.

------------------
Superdave
www.salinaspeedway.com

jlfastride
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 135
posted January 14, 2003 12:59 PM  
what about this though different driving styles require different setups . isn't the power output part of that setup. i personally build my on cars, motors ,gears, trannies(glides) i run at the front usually at my track. i make my d-40's last for 6-8 nights without seeing a claim in years. so if you take away my motor and d-40's won't that just slow me down to where im running in a line around the top and letting the guys that already ran that type setup beat me. i don't think i would like that. they can't make there tires last 2 nights. and they have less motor than i do i just must have a nerve running from my seat to my feet. lol gl to all jl

pdub25
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 57
posted January 15, 2003 01:19 PM  
I've only been back in racing three years, and run in the superstock class at a couple of the local tracks. My opinion is the engine claim, at least locally doesn't work. No one claims here......none in three years, and none a couple years before that as a spectator.

Last year for example, the same car and driver won like 80% of the feature races. Rumor was he was running like a 421 cu in engine with a bert trans in a glorified street stock! The rules state like most, stock clutch, stock transmission, etc. If this guy was ever teched, there's no way his car would have passed. But no one ever bothered to tech any cars. The inspection we had amounted to checking for a working fire extinguisher.........thats it.

I think if the tracks would do a good tech inspection.......that would do it.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 562
posted January 15, 2003 02:15 PM  
pdub25, Let me ask you why you stopped raicng the first time?? Did it have anything to do with the costs??

Most businesses don't ask the employees why the quit....and I assume a race track is a business....and in a way the drivers are his employees.....we put on the show...we are the product he is selling to the public.

The promotors are affraid of enforcing the rules.......see if they catch someone cheating they get kicked out and that gives the track bad reputation.....word of mouth travles fast.....people say things that are not true and it is repeated several times.

I agree that if promotors did their job of teching cars they will loose a few cars....at first......then some of those people that have quit racing will be back... guys that quit because of the cost to compete....and they didn't want to cheat, just to keep up.....they got frustrated and quit......

Some day the promotors will need to address these problems......there is NOT a endless supply of people willing to spend $30,000 to race for $400 to win........

I see this at a go kart track,,,owner only has a few karts in every class so he doesn't tech anyone......I NEED THE KARTS.....that's what he said. Well he used to have 12 karts in every class......but some people quit rather than cheat to keep up.....so now he has 6 karts per class and of that I would say 3 or 4 cheat and the other 2 or 3 are there to learn....just starting out.....how long you think this track will stay in business>>???? My bet is not another year.


This aint a easy deal, for the racer or promotor.........We as racers brought a lot on ourselfs.....and the promotors let it go.......now we are complaining......ME INCLUDED

jlfastride
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 135
posted January 16, 2003 07:45 AM  
i bet that's why the rules get graduated up every few years , the looser the rules the harder it would be to cheat. personally i run ump on a shoestring budget , i usually run at the front at hometrack and don't hear anything about cheating. back in the stock class though now that's a diff. story but they have alot more rules to try and deal with and yes there is a guy with a sprint car engine ,bert trans and everything in the stocks but nobody realizes what he has just that they think he must be cheating. gl to all in the 03' season. jl

pdub25
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 57
posted January 17, 2003 07:51 AM  
Awkwardjeff.......

Yes, in part I got out the first time due to rising costs of racing. But there were other factors involved too, just got married, starting a family. Now that the kids are grown, I got back in because I love it. But to be honest.......it is frustrating to race for 2nd or 3rd every weekend. And I refuse to spend the kind of money its going to take to beat some of these guys.......if I wanted to spend that kind of money, I'd move up. Its as simple as that.

pdub25
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 57
posted January 17, 2003 08:01 AM  
I forgot to mention too, I have heard the track officals complain about lack of car counts, and not wanting to tech guys for that reason. But it has to get old from a fan's point of view sitting in the stands, to see the same guy win everyweek, without much competition. Unless they happen to be a fan of that driver.

Competition is what its about for me, not how much money I can spend. Heck, my partner and I do everything we possibly can ourselves, building the chassis, engines, etc. Which is also part of the reason I enjoy the sport so much.

I'll get off my soapbox now.......but will be interested in seeing where this thread goes.

[This message has been edited by pdub25 (edited January 17, 2003).]

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 6243
posted January 17, 2003 10:09 AM  
As with Boone and similar tracks, I like the promotor claim rule. THe reason is that the promotor can take the heat for claiming and your buddy doesn't. It taks the policing out of the hands of the racers. A motor a week might be a little excessive but, on principal I like it. I would further like to see each driver purchase an MSD box at the beginning of the season as their "entry fee" these poxes would be handed out randomly each week by the track when you sign in. With the plug in installation standardized to MSD specifications I don't think it would be a problem to hand out a box at the beginning of the night and collect it at the end. Talk about killing traction control, at least the most easily hidden version.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 562
posted January 17, 2003 06:20 PM  
Jammin, My original post was for 3 classes of cars to run the same motor rules...and for 1 car TOTAL each night.....from the top 10 in all 3 classes.....just to make sure everyone understand, Not 1 in 10 chance of giving a motor away.....a 1 in 30 chance... The average guy that races 20 to 30 nights a year is going to give away 1 motor....some guy that races 60 nights will give up 2 motors......along with still having a claim that is already in place,.......

I could go on and on and on about the reasons why.......and before i'm done some people will think it's great and other wont......I will add to my REASONs of this..everyone says "IT WILL COST RACERS MONEY"........no IT WONT....now when you move up from a street stock to a super and then to a modified you didn't need to take and GIVE your motors away.....and build new motors along with a new car.......I'M NOT SAYING THIS WILL SAVE A RACER MONEY ....in the long run a racer will still spend all he can afford too........the budget is still the budget.......but with lower motor costs the poor racer will now be able to afford new tires, Bilstien shocks, new suspension parts....ect. Things that will help his lap times......and the rich guys will be slowed down some because of the motors being closer to each other.........the winners will still win........the back of the pack guy will remain there.......but the field of cars will be closer and that makes the middle guys.....which is 80 percent....makes them feel they COULD win......

But taking the motor with you when you move up is a HUGE incentive for moving up....YOU ONLY NEED TO BUILD A CAR.....NOT A CAR AND A MOTOR AND A SPARE MOTOR ......because that is what it takes NOW to move up in class[QUOTE]Originally posted by jammin:
[B]Let me ask you this....if the track claimed a top 10 car each week, and auctioned off the motor for the points fund, do you think that would stop the mess? Leave the lower running guys alone, and let them proceed to get to that point.

Jeff

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 6243
posted January 17, 2003 09:13 PM  
A lot of good thoughts here guys. On the thought of having tracks claiming motors, why not have the sanctioning body make the claims? Say on every so many nights of sanctioned racing at least one motor must be claimed, if not by any of the competitors, then the sanctioning body has to step up and claim one. My only problem with tracks claiming motors is that the guys with the big motors are just going to go down the road to the next track. [And take some fans with them] I run UMP, and I can only remember hearing of one claim in the last several years. If all tracks with UMP sanction had the threat of a claim, would that reduce the cost of motors? I would think so, even if you were running for the $100,000 payout for the national championship that they paid this year. How many 10-15 thousand dollar motors would you be willing to lose to win a hundred grand. The motors that they [UMP] claimed could be auctioned on-line and the proceeds added to the points fund, so it wouldn't be so top heavy. Maybe if this was implemented the racers themselves would start using the claim. Just some rambling thoughts, so don't flame me too bad

bandit-tm3
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 97
posted January 19, 2003 04:14 PM  
I personaly hate the claim rule, and that is why I run USMTS, NCRA, and open shows. I run on a tight budget and build everything myself. There is no way I am going to let some racer take my motor for $500.00. I work way too hard for the money I spend on a motor that will last for 2 to 3 seasons. I have not ever been out run buy a motor. I have been out run by better racers on that particular night. I also run a clutchless trans. the thought of having to have a muncie, and clutch to maintaine is crazy. I bought my tranny for $1200.00 and have run it for 3 years with out any cost sence. A good muncie is $500.00 with a clutch costing $650.00 and a throwout bearing costing $200.00.
Then you have to put discs in yearly, and rebuild your trans every year at around $400.00. You do the math and tell me where the logic is in the claim and stock trans rule is.

Dennis Krause
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22
posted January 19, 2003 06:12 PM  
I totally agree with bandit-tm3. I spend about $5000 on a motor, and I work to dam hard for my money to give it up for $500. With these hockey puck tires you can't use all the power come feature time anyway. You do need power to qualify through the heats on a tacky track. I'd like to throw out the motor claim, go back to qualifying for the feature, I'm indeferent on the tranny rules, I have run both and I think a Bert might be the better choice in the long run, pumps on the front of the motor, quick change rear ends for lower overall cost, and run the hockey puck tires as the great equalizer. Let 'em spend $20000 on a motor.

fastone_65
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 1
posted January 19, 2003 06:15 PM  
I think that rules just cause more expense. The people who have big budgets will pay the money to work around any engine rule out there. I feel that hard tires is the answer to any money issues.You can run 700hp and its not gonna make the difference with hard tires especially when it gets slick.The suspensions that we run arent hooking the cars up all that much more than the past.Take a look at some of the winning cars suspensions,I have seen simple 3 links from the past get the job done!!Simply stated run hard tires and watch the average guy win some races!!!

bandit-tm3
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 97
posted January 19, 2003 08:47 PM  
I have been giving it some thought, and in my opinion if you really want to let the low dollar racer compete with the top end racer you have to have hard tires and a weight rule. buy building my own cars I can control how much my car weighs. the car I raced last year weighed 2050lbs. I know that I had an advantage on the cars that weighed 2450lbs. even though I did not spend more money on light parts, I lightend every part on my car as I was building it. Buy having a weight rule I feel you take away all of the noticable advantage. I have talked to promoters about this and they think that the guys with all the money will still buy all the light pieces and have an advantage. that is not true. You are still moving the weight of the car. You are not going to notice the difference in the light parts. So a guy can still run a older car and compete, even with older suspension designs. I run a 2 link with a pullbar, and that is as old of design as you can get. The hard tires will equalize all of the suspensions there are. At my weekly track (81 speedway witchita ks) there is every kind of car and sus. possible, and all kinds of money spent. Some spend $100,000.00 to the $10,000.00 that I will spend this year, and that is counting a new car. I finish in the top 5 every year buy spending smart money.


Geffy95x
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 181
posted January 20, 2003 11:11 AM  
What about doing what the touring cars do in europe ,If you win at a local track then the next race at the local track you must add 250 Lbs to the min weight of your car (more or less) 2nd place 150 3rd 100 4th 50.
Lead is cheap and the local tracks could store it easily, then we will see what kind of drivers are out there.

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted January 21, 2003 12:03 AM  
Euromods!

[This message has been edited by tilley88 (edited January 21, 2003).]

Geffy95x
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 181
posted January 21, 2003 09:56 AM  
Vee haf vays ov making you slower!.

leftturn29
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 95
posted January 23, 2003 11:17 PM  
come on guys, the claim rule has never worked, and it never will. the people with the money wont care if their motor is claimed or not, but let a budget racers motor get claimed and he's out for a month if not longer. it wont increase car counts due to the little guy being forced out due to the claim rule. why not go back to 2 barrel carbs w/390 cfm and stock intake and put a vacuum rule in there, and if you want put throw the hard tires in there for good measure. now that would allow the budget racer to mix it up and car counts would increase not to mention people filling up the stands to see some good hard racin--just my thoughts.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 562
posted January 24, 2003 12:47 AM  
The claim doesn't work because very few people use that rule.........I would say racing is over 50% of a head game......if you feel you can't win you NEVER will...and if you feel the guy with the big fancy trailer and big HP motor is going to kick you tail.........he will.

people are too intimidated to use the rule...oh no I can't everyone will think I'm a jerk,.......they already think you are a jerk for not spending $10,000 on a motor to compete with them or moving down a class with your budget. Sure they all pretend to like you.......they even smile when they say HI in the pits.........but sitting around the garage they are laughing at those people descibed above...........

I PERSONALLY DON'T LIKE THE CLAIM RULE... I agree there are other ways of dealing with the problem of costs. Some people might have gotten the wrong idea that I love the claim rule..........I just think for a track trying to control cost this is the easy way out..........put it back on the racers to police themselfs.........I wanted to just put it back on the track to enforce it's own rules.............they should claim a motor instead of pump it at the end of the night..........OR get rid of the rule all together......and think of something better. like a carb rule, tires, claim the top of the motor, ect.

jlfastride
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 135
posted January 24, 2003 08:00 AM  
why don't you like the pump the motor deal that actually sounds the best to me. except that with my setup and driving style i need more motor than some and less than others but that's just part of the setups i like to run . so how about this iron blocks 23 degree heads ,front pumps any trans and any rear the rear i don't care about i would still use my 9inch unless i got a good deal also im still using my glide(self built pretty cheap) open rear suspension. oh heck ill just keep running ump and being happy. jl

Pickles
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 154
posted January 24, 2003 11:38 AM  
"People are too intimidated to use the rule."

That is the point I have been trying to make all along, Jeff.

The reason they are intimidated is because $500 does not represent a FAIR amount for a CLAIMER engine.

Raise the claim to a FAIR amount for a CLAIMER engine and no one needs to feel intimidated making a claim. And no one has a right to be angry at the claimer.

Claiming an engine is buying an engine. You are not throwing the money away, you are getting value for your claim money. Can't afford to pay a FAIR amount for a CLAIMER engine? Then you are in over your head. That is not a put down. We all try to go where we cannot afford to go at one time or another.
But holding the claim to an unrealisticly low amount to accomodate people who are in over their head is a big part of why the claim is not working the way it should.


jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 6243
posted February 04, 2003 11:21 AM  
Jammin, If this was a easy question the answer would have been found by now from all the smart people on this site. What can a promotor do to control cost? Let us stat with the track surface......how about a track that does NOT tear up tires in 2 nights? Then the problem becomes if the track is sticky then the MONSTER motor shine.......

The truth of the matter is racing cost money, and the only way to control costs is with smart rules that are ENFORCED. Along with NOT changing rules every year. The sanctioning body I race with has changed motor rules every year for the last 4 years. Along with a few clairification DURING the season......hello, can you say.....BUILD A PILE OF MOTORS......... Then they add weight to the big cube motors.....give the small motors a roller cam.....all this and that trying to keep a level playing field. Let me be the first to say........

I DON'T CARE WHAT THE RULES ARE!!!!!!

If you think the big motor has a advantage build one......if you think under the current rules the small motor has the advatage build one........JUST LEAVE THE RULES ALONE FOR A FEW YEARS.

Every racer in my class at my track has the same options.......if I build a motor that was wrong that's my fault. I'll need to build a new one......

To put things into perspective.....the only people these rules makes listen too are the whinning little cry babies........ I can't keep up with my small motor...so they change the rules, I can't keep up with my whatever parts......so they change the rules trying to pacify the baby.

My sanctioning body claimed to have froze the rules for 3 years........4 years ago...LOL

The reason the roller cams were allowed in the small motors was that those motors were already running a roller cam to keep up. So instead of teching someone and finding the illegal.......they just changed the rules.

In fairness to the rules makers......the only time they hear from people is when that person is complaining....... That is the start of the change of the rule.....instead the rules makers should tell that person to go home and work on your own program.


If they would just leave the rules alone for a few years everyone will be equal, or they will move down a class so they can afford to be on a level playing field.

As for Pickles statement of the claim not being a fair price......... you build a claimer motor for $2000 and race it average of 30 nights in MY claim idea.......and yes you will freshen it once.....at a cost of $500.........that is $2500 for 30 nights of racing........subtract out the increase in purses............what does you motor program cost ???????

Or keep doing what you are doing.... $6000-$8000 motors run them 30 nights and freshen them once at a cost of $1000 and NO increase in the purse.......... did I miss something?

Pickles
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 154
posted February 04, 2003 08:52 PM  
Jeff, I was just giving the reason your statement..."People are too intimidated to use the rule"...is true!!!

Understanding why they are intimidated is the KEY to this whole claim discussion!


[This message has been edited by Pickles (edited February 05, 2003).]

PEDDLER
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 446
posted February 04, 2003 09:10 PM  
There is a way to race WITHOUT a "Claim Rule" and it has to with promoters building a set of rules and have the lug nuts to enforce them with a tech man that doesn't mind making a few "uncomfortable" each week.

It is to the point, that with the IMCA,UMP,WHATEVER sanction claim rule, that the techs have nothing to do therefore the rules are not adheared to in other classes. The promoters have gotten LAZY and are letting the racers tech by claiming.

A good basic set of rules,

A good tech man,

A promoter that doesn't mind enforcing the rules whether or he looses a car or two.

And "QUIT TRYING TO SAVE US MONEY" as this cost us dearly.

Just an opinion.
Jim

uforacing51
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 570
posted February 06, 2003 11:28 PM  
WOW!!
What a bunch of good ideas, and a very good question. I have been trying to figure a way to bring costs down some also. For Years. I have ran in pure stocks, street stocks, super stocks and modifieds. I have ran since 1978 in Montana and Wissota came along about 1987 here. At first Wissota was a pretty good deal, now they are eating our lunch. I see so many racers doing exactly what Jeff says, spending thousands (in some cases over 30) to win 350 or 400 dollars. This, ... is stupid.
At the same time, not one promoter out there would be willing to do something to lower the costs, not until he or she is going to lose the track because no one will race there.
We have never had a claim up here when wissota claimed motors and now the racers run pretty much what they want. Keep in mind the track is the only equalizer that we lower dollar cars have, and that somtimes works in our favor if the others are spinning there wheels.
Most of the racers around here run all kinds of goodies and they don't usually have too many cars getting sent home because of a part that isn't what the rules say is legal. So my take is most of them are running legal, or doing a very good job of hiding the illegal stuff.
My thought is this:
take an honest look at your car, what cost the most money to put in it and where can a part be cheaper and still do the job it was intended to do.
AROUND HERE, parts like light third members are big, along with expensive shocks, light and functional transmissions (IE.. Brinn, Burt, Falcon) and of course the ever present engine. I personally believe, that the engine is a factor but not as much as we believe. I think the crate motor program is going to have to be looked at for racing at some point. No one can afford to run expensive motors for very long before they start to wonder how they are going to pay for all of the things one needs in life to survive.
I believe that having rules for the type of 3rd member racers should buy, along with the carb, heads, fuel delivery system, tranny, and maybe tires would lower the cost for the racers in that class.
Now, this is going to take an army of tech inspectors, but if the rules that are in place are ENFORCED, then the class would be fun, the racing would be closer and would put the driving back in the hands of the driver. I think it takes the rich kid factor out of it. NASCAR didn't get to where they are at by letting everyone do whatever they wanted. Today, NASCAR racing is closer than ever and I like it that way (except on the big tracks)(RIP Dale)
I see it this way, Abraham Maslow suggested that we all as humans have a hierarchy of needs that fall into five catagories,
5 Self Actualization
4 Esteem Needs
3 Social Needs
2 Security Needs
1 Physiological Needs
starting at the bottom, as we realize each one, we work up to the next but never really reach the top because as we reach a level, and become more respected among our peers, we need to do other things in other areas of our life to reach these goals too. I see racers as spending large amounts of money to realize the next step and others simply don't need to "show the world" how fast they are.
I simply can't afford to chase the guys that are willing to risk it all (life, house, car, and wife and kids) to run 1st on saturday night for 400 bucks.

As for the idea on how to return to a cheaper form of racing, I like my idea, OR... Just wait, some day (soon) it will have to change, because the lastest generation of kids are getting their racing thrills on video games and won't need to do what we do to have fun.

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