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Author Topic:   B-Mods in Houston Texas
Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 73
posted August 24, 2001 04:34 PM           send a private message to Arkie Dirt Racer   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
This subject was started from the cancellation of IMCA mods at Gator Speedway. Pleas post comments or ideas or other B-mod rules.


Racer4
posted August 20, 2001 10:40 PM
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I know for a fact there are several racers like me in the Houston area who want to race modifieds. We don't want to run Limited Mods, and we don't have the wallet to run UMP. So, now would be the time for B-Mods in the Houston area. I was looking forward to putting together an IMCA Mod and I was shooting for next season, now that's toast. I have been there done that when it comes to a high cost class, and I don't like it when I get outrun solely by the almighty dollar. There is still a chance next year one of Houston's tracks might run IMCA, but it's highly doubtfull, so what do you guy's think? Will there be a chance for B-Mods to run in Houston? I don't know about you, but I feel four classes of full bodied cars competing at a track on a full time basis is a little ancient, especially when we now have Limited Mods, Dwarf Cars, and Sprints running as well with the UMP Modifieds. If nothing else, I would like to see a full bodied class running lower than 2700lbs!!

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 73
posted August 26, 2001 03:33 PM           send a private message to Arkie Dirt Racer   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Here is an example of B-Mod rules, keep in mind this is a B-mod rule for an IMCA track. The limited Mod takes up most of the space in this set of rules.:
2001 IMCA MODIFIED RULES APPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING EXCEPTIONS.

1. Fuel-gasoline only. Pump gas. FUEL CELL VENT HOSE MUST EXTEND TO WITHIN 2 INCHES OF THE BOTTOM OF THE CELL AND BE SECURELY FASTENED.
2. Drive train: OEM manual transmission (3 or 4 speed). Stock clutch or mini clutch allowed.Aluminum flywheel allowed. MUST have FULL SIZE steel bell housing. Flywheel MUST bolt to crank shaft. Starter must bolt to engine block or factory location, Or, an OEM automatic with a coupler. Must use a hand or clutch pedal operated ball valve for neutral. NO bump starts. Must use flywheel shield. All forward and reverse gears must be operational. Ford 9" rear end allowed. Floater recommended.
3. Tires: Any G-60 McCreary IMCA stamped. NO TIRE GROOVING ALLOWED.
4. IMCA wheel with or without sticker.
5. ENGINE: Engine must appear strictly stock. All motors must be 9 to 1 compression.
ONLY STOCK APPEARING CRANK AND RODS. NO ALUMINUM OR LIGHT WEIGHT ALLOWED. A MINIMUM 2-INCH PLUG ABOVE THE OIL LEVEL IN THE SIDE OF THE OIL PAN RECOMMENDED. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A PLUG, THE OIL PAN WILL HAVE TO BE REMOVED AT THE TIME OF INSPECTION.

Absolutely no Stroking allowed!

6. A. MANIFOLD: Only stock, unaltered 2 or 4 barrel cast iron intake manifold.
Porting, polishing or port machining are not permitted. No Bowtie, after market, SVO and W2, marine, VORTEC or other special production intake manifolds.
B. CYLINDER HEADS must be cast iron stock production. No aftermarket OR VORTEC.
NO porting or polishing.
7. Roller cams and lifters not allowed. Stock type stamped steel rocker arms only.
No roller fulcrum or roller tip rocker arms. NO REV KITS ALLOWED.
8. Must use OEM distributor and ignition. No multiple spark ignitions.
9. May use aftermarket headers.
10. CARBURETOR:
A. 2 barrel only. GM on GM, Ford on Ford, Chrysler on Chrysler, or #4412 on anything. Holley 500 CFM 2 barrel, part #4412 with a 1-11/16th maximum throttle bore. No grinding or polishing of any kind allowed. All carburetor components Must be for a 500 Holley. No milling or grinding of throttle shaft allowed, shaft must stay round. The choke and air horn may be removed, this is the Only re-working allowed. CASTING LINE AT VENTURI MUST BE PRESENT.
B. Carburetor adapter plate or spacer allowed.(See spec. below)
Important: Distance between the bottom of carburetor and top of intake manifold Can Not exceed one and one quarter (1 1/4) Inch !!
Example adapter: Trans-Dapt part #2086 will adapt Holly 500 to GM manifold.
No high performance adapters allowed, spacer opening must be perpendicular to the base of carburetor. ADJUSTABLE SLIDERS ALLOWED TO TUNE ENGINE THEN SLIDES MUST BE FILLED FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON.
C. The promoter or any driver has the right to claim a carburetor from any car finishing the feature race in the top four (4) positions for $125.00 or $25 and exchange. The driver being claimed has the option of cash or exchange, except with promoter. No driver may claim more than twice in one season. No driver can claim the same car twice.
D. No fuel injection, no electric fuel pumps. No belt driven fuel pumps. Pumps must bolt to block in stock location.
-----I don't like these rules, Too Slow!----


BILLY BOB
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 101
posted August 27, 2001 11:38 AM  
Maybe I'm the retarded one here but with all due respect how can current mods be too fast(expensive) and the b-mod class be too slow. If you want big tires, move your motor forward and put a latemodel body on and I think you have what they call latemodel stock at Houston Raceway Park. Maybe that is the class for you. I personally like the B-mod rules you listed, I feel it is far better than the street stock class with mod bodies. ( Now they want to start that around here in Dallas?)
Purses are not going up at all but the cost of racing goes up every year. The classes get more out of hand every year and the gap between the haves and the have nots gets further all the time. Speaking for myself I like the IMCA rules and enjoy racing under that sanction. I am not following what you are trying to accomplish with yet another set of rules for mods.

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 101
posted August 27, 2001 03:34 PM           send a private message to BILLY BOB   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Most all of the B-Mod rules I have found are similiar to the one above, but keep in mind: 1) they don't have Limited Modifieds
2) they are IMCA tracks NOT UMP

The tracks around here don't want the IMCA sanction for some reason, so I am trying to fill the Void. If there was an IMCA sanction here then we could run it, but there is no IMCA! Limited Mods are a great class, 2300lbs Hobby Stock's, Yea there Great. I believe Limited Mods took off so fast here in Houston for several reasons. Racing a Limited Modified is cheaper than just about any class except maybe a back of the pack bomber. We have too many full bodied classes and they are all heavy-over 3300lbs 4 to be exact. If you can only afford a bomber motor then race the Limited Mod. If you can afford to build the billet high dollar megga cubic inch UMP motors then by all means go for it. There seems like a huge gap in here. This B-Mod class can be a stepping stone for some, but it has to be fast and cheap enough to attract the Racer. The last is where the better tire comes in.

Here is another set of rules I liked better. Some of this seems a bit strange, but closer none the less. http://www.centralalabamaspeedway.com/sys-tmpl/360economymodifieds/

brownstone
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted August 30, 2001 07:50 PM  
I agree we need B=Mods or something in the houston area. many car owners/drivers will admit it if asked directly.
The UMP motor costs are much too high and have gotten out of hand and wont ever be getting any better.

I am sure there will be somebody that will post on here about how they are happy with running UMP and making laps even though they can t challenge the top cars. Thats there choice and right to do so.

However I like racer4 think we need another choice, the big barrier in this town is finding a promoter to go for it. Poor Gator didnt make it very long even with IMCA's support.

I think if a different mod class is to make it, that class will have be close enough to UMP mods that people can switch with very little cost or effort, otherwise they will just keep making laps with UMP.

I suggest a mod class that restricts the motors to NO aftermarket blocks. Also NO alluminum other than the intake. Also the make of model of aftermarket heads need to be limited to specific brands and part numbers. Intakes should also be limited to a specific list and part numbers. Also no roller cams. I do not want a spec motor but listing whats legal and whats not partwise everyone can by the best on the list and can go no more, unless there smarts or ingenuity take them there.


This only an idea so please feel free to disagree or comment. I think a 2400 lbs weight limit is also fair, I would prefer the IMCA tire as this will limit things as well, but I think the UMP tire could work as well. Ok huys start the tomato throwing lol

BILLY BOB
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 101
posted August 31, 2001 09:50 AM  
So basically leave the transmission and carburetors alone and put ump cars on mcCreary tires and limit the motor to all steel with spec part numbers. Sounds like that would work. Just the tire cost alone will definitely be cheaper for you. And I would bet the cars wouldn't be much slower.

racinrich66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 56
posted August 31, 2001 11:10 AM  
I like Billy Bobs idea about leaving the carbs and trans alone with the imca tire. Make the class to where you cant touch the carb, tranie and let the weight rule of 2450 stand. This will give the older cars a chance to be competitive. Here is something thats a little far fetched but what about making a spec gear for each track? 5:29 for HRP, 5:67 for gator and cleveland. I know there are alot of things that could be done with the trannies but make the rules to where your limited to a year/make combo that came with the year and make of the engine. Just my two cents worth.

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 56
posted August 31, 2001 04:02 PM           send a private message to racinrich66   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Houston is a UMP town now, why would you have a class running the Mcreary tire? Most racers are not going to travel to the Imca tracks. I would like someone to justify that tire in a UMP town.

I still think the B-Mods should be allowed some type of traction improvement due to less engine output. Why not let them have at least one 10" tire and wheel for the RR, And everything else the UMP tire. I agree with the IMCA trans rule. Use the Stock Car 200cc Iron Head Rule. If you don't use a very restrictive cam rule then you better have a really awfull intake rule, I prefer the 466lift or less idea. IMCA fuel pump rule, no exterior ignition boxes, must use fact type ignition (Hei allowed on any brand). Limit the Carbs to Vacume secondary 750's (unmodified). Cast crank rule, stock appearing rods 360 max c.i., must have 2 inch plug on oilpan for inspection. No Aftermarket blocks, or transmissions. Just Remember this is not an IMCA mod, this is supposed to be a significantly cheaper Mod than Ump, with the Only appearance differance being the RR tire.

On the other hand you may need to leave more things UMP legal, like their trans rule to attract the slower UMP cars.

I would like to believe this car could switch to IMCA tires and be legal and competetive at an IMCA race.

Ok, no slam-dunking.

[This message has been edited by Racer4 (edited August 31, 2001).]

brownstone
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted August 31, 2001 07:50 PM  
I know this is a UMP town, and I would like to suggest that an IMCA style tire be phased in over time. I think starting with the UMP tire would be a good idea. I think using the McCreary tire or a tire as hard keeps people from going crazy with the motor or cam.
This is also why I dont want to go with a wider tire of any kind.


Flat tappet cams are not too expensive, but when people start going to roller set ups thats where the trouble starts. I like Racer4's ignition rule and think that should be part of the deal as well. I also think stock style trans rule is the way to go, no berts or brinns.

I do not want to change carbs and I think for the most part carbs should be left alone other than to say that aeresol billet carb should not be allowed because of the cost and advantage to running one. Any other carb would be ok and this would also help bring cars in. Buying another carb as Racer4 mentioned would cost some bucks and might keep guys from switching right away.

I dont mind if people want to spend the money on a steel crank but the rule should say no lightened cranks of any kind, thats were a lot of guys down here are spending there money and weight reduction in the motor helps a lot. Steel cranks aid in the life of the motor, its when these guys buy the crower an scat light weights that it gets out of hand.

I think the rules I mentioned before and these mentioned now would allow a lot of teams to start running b-mods with little or no change and limit cost just enough where things would not get out of hand. The monkey wrench here as I see it aould be the following, the tech man, and the promoter.

The tech guy must know the rules and stick to them and be knowlegeable of the mod class.

And of course we need a promoter that will stand up behind the Tech guy and the rules regardless of the big money guys and there belly aching.

If any of yall used to run at Big H when they were dirt and IMCA then you know what I am talking about. FOr a long time (Jim Chapman not sure of the name, I am memory challenged lol) the tech guy at big H ran things to the letter of the law in the IMCA mods and it was good class etc. But the promoter eventually gave in and pulled his support in favor of the big money guys and thus that was one small step that put us where we are now. Ok fire at will lol, I have already started to duck...lol

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 315
posted September 01, 2001 12:46 PM  
i dont know as i would switch to this b-mod class.. but i would like to see it...i think it would be a great class to take the place of............ "DWARF CARS"...lol. bring it on i say......

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 315
posted September 12, 2001 12:51 AM           send a private message to MOD RACER#93   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
If you run a cast crank rule, the guy who wants to run an illegal cam will fly apart, I would say that's a pretty good deterrent to cheating on the cam. Keep the RPM down while still making good power, I feel that is a great way to save money.

[This message has been edited by Racer4 (edited September 23, 2001).]

Mod 78
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 42
posted September 12, 2001 08:40 AM  
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[This message has been edited by Mod 78 (edited September 12, 2001).]

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 42
posted September 23, 2001 10:52 PM           send a private message to Mod 78   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
This subject is still alive and well. I have recieved great support from fellow racers who want this B-Mod or limited Engine IMCA style Chassis Modified in the Houston area.

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 42
posted October 05, 2001 05:22 PM           send a private message to Mod 78   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Personally I don't feel its fair to any Racer or certain racing class to require them to use a "used" tire from another class. Furthermore once again, there are no IMCA sanctions in the Houston area, only UMP. Also, I would like to clarify the only class that prescribes to using a modified tire in this area is UMP Modifieds.

KRMOTORSPORTS
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 6
posted October 11, 2001 11:54 AM  
NOT TO PUT DOWN THE B-MODS BUT LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE COST!!!!!. YOU WANT A CLASS THAT IS CHEEP AND FAST WELL YOU CAN NOT HAVE THEM BOTH I HAVE TWO LIMITED MODS LETS WIEGHT THE COST TIRES MINE 79$ IMCA 110$ REAR END 100$ AT JUNK YARD 9 INCH FLOATER 1000$ SHOCKS 20$PARTS HOUSE, MOTORS 800$ SHORT BLOCK HEADS 487 STOCK VALVES TRANS 500$ 2 SPEED UPPER A ARMS 20$ JUNK YARD . WHEN YOU ADD UP THE COST YOU WILL SEE LIMITED MODS ARE A LOT LESS TO RUN ,AND REPAIR. THE LIMITEDS WERE NOT JUST INTENDED TO BE CHEEP BUT IT IS DESIGNED TO DEVELOP DRIVERS THAT ARE ABLE TO DRIVE A CAR WITH SKILL NOT SUSP SET UP .YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DRIVE THESE CARS WERE YOU CAN GET A MOD SET UP TO DRIVE THE CAR FOR YOU. NOW LETS TALK RULES... STOCK LOOKING CRANKS THAT MEANS A LUNATI LITE CRANK WITH GM NUMBERS 950$ MUST BE OEM CRANK BALANCE ONLY.HEADS OPEN CHAMBER ONLY 1.94 1.50 STOCK SPRINGS 78 AND NEWER.CRANK MUST BE OEM BORE AND STROKE FOR BLOCK USED 350 FOR 350 NOT V-8 FOR V-8.THE USE OF STREET TIRES IS BECOUSE IF YOU TRY TO CHEET IN THE POWER YOU WILL BURN THE TIRES OFF. PLEASE DONT GET ME WRONG I LIKE THE IDEA OF THE B-MODS.I WOULD BUILD ONE OR TWO IF THIS WOULD HAVE CAME AROUND A FEW YEARS EARLIER.BUT WHAT ABOUT THE LIMITEDS THAT ARE ALREADY BUILT ARE WE GOING TO THROUGH THEM AWAY NO !!.CUT THEM UP AND CONVERT OVER MO-MONEY.GET RID OF A CLASS I KNOW THE ONE I WOULD GET RID OF LOL.BUT THEY HAVE A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY TIDE UP JUST LIKE WE DO AND THAT WOULD NOT BE WRIGHT. YOU WOULDN'T LIKE IT IF IT HAPPEND TO YOU .SO BE FAIR I JUST THINK THE B-MODS ARE TO MUCH TO LATE.

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 6
posted October 11, 2001 12:30 PM           send a private message to KRMOTORSPORTS   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KRMOTORSPORTS:
Hey Guy, let me enlighten you. Limited Mods are Hobby Stocks, not Modifieds. Just Because the name has Mod in it, doesn't make it a Mod, they are OPEN WHEELED HOBBY STOCKS. Hey, I like Hobby Stocks, I'm not trying to compare B-Mods to Hobby stocks. I'm comparing the cost of UMP Modifieds to B-Mods. There's a big difference, maybe now you get the picture. You race a Hobby Stock, and I want to race a B-Mods class. I also think the SIMS thing must be a great motivator for the Limited's, good for you.

KRMOTORSPORTS
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 6
posted October 11, 2001 01:19 PM  
I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT OF VIEW RACER 4 .BUT YOU WANT A CLASS THAT IS GOING TO GET OUT OF HAND .YOU WILL END UP WITH A IMCA MOD.THAY CAN'T GOVERN THE CARS THEY HAVE NOW AND IF YOU LOKE AT THE RULES OF THE B-MOD YOU WILL SEE IT WOULD NOT TAKE PEAPLE LIKE ME TO BUILD 500 PLUS HORSE POWER MOTORS AND CHEATER TRANS.SO BEFORE LONG YOU HAVE THE SAME STORY OF THE MOST MONEY WINS. PLUS ON THE NEXT LEVEL HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE TRACK TO TAKE ON ANOTHER CLASS WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR THE ONES WE HAVE NOW.

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 6243
posted October 11, 2001 01:46 PM  
I AGREE .WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE WE LOOK AT NEW CLASSES TO START BECOUSE THE OLD CLASSES HAVE GOTTEN OUT OF HAND BOMBERS ARE NOW STREET STOCK,STREET STOCK ARE NOW STOCK ECT.SO IT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD IDEA BUT LIKE I SAID GIVE IT TIME AND YOU WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT IT TO.I DON'T HAVE TO WIN I HAVE FUN JUST BEING AT THE TRACK I DON'T EVEN HAVE TO RACE .IF YOU RACE SO YOU CAN WIN MONEY THEN YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST.IT SHOULD NOT MATTER IF YOU HAVE TO MOVE UP IN CLASS OR DOWN JUST HAVE FUN. RACER 4 YOU SAID YOU DON'T WANT TO RACE A LIMITED HAVE YOU EVER RACED ONE THAT HAS BEEN SET UP PROPERLY THEY REALY ARE FUN CARS TO DRIVE EVEN IF THEY ARE HOBBIES ON A DIET.

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 6
posted October 17, 2001 09:59 PM           send a private message to KRMOTORSPORTS   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
The idea of a quick change rear has been brought up for this class. Lets see, hmm... what are the advantages of running a quick change? Other than ease of gear changes for different tracks, doesn't it cost more horses to run through a quick change? I would think this class would require steel hubs.

Shoot away!!!! Lets hear it.

farmer334
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 67
posted October 18, 2001 12:46 PM  
I have a B-mod, I have read the rules that were posted and some of them are off, we can run roller tip or roller rockers. Stroker motors are fine, just not a roller cam. There is no restriction on the size of cam. We have to run a 500 cfm 2 barrel carbeurator, and cast heads as well as intake. No dart heads. No brinn or bert trans, if you do run a brinn or bert, 100lbs has to be added to the car. the weight for the cars is 2400 at most tracks, but some are higher. The B-mod class is a great class for guys who don't have the access to a lot of money. The B-mod class is also just as much fun to watch, just a little slower.

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 315
posted October 18, 2001 06:19 PM  
the idea of a quickchange to me just make's the faster cars faster cause they'll have all the right gears for the track..size and be changing from heat to feature...to totally dail in the car. were as with a 9 inch floater you have a select few gears to choose from 29, 43, 67 etc. and everyone is using pretty much the same thing.....seems to me like 9 inch would be more even..just my thoughts.

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 315
posted October 26, 2001 10:07 PM           send a private message to MOD RACER#93   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
I spoke with a UMP Mod race team today that is considering selling out due to the high costs. We went over the B-Mod rules and they were very pleased, and said they would run it if we had a track. We will need some cars before we can expect a track to pic up the class. Just a few more Racers out there willing to commit, and this will be a done deal. It takes a commitment, and the realization that some of the High dollar items that were purchased to race UMP will not be allowed. How about some of you other UMP car owners in the Houston area, are the high costs getting you down or forcing you to consider getting out of racing or dropping to a lower class? This B-Mod class will allow you to use your existing chassis.

hotrodracer
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 4
posted November 26, 2001 07:23 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Racer4:
I spoke with a UMP Mod race team today that is considering selling out due to the high costs. We went over the B-Mod rules and they were very pleased, and said they would run it if we had a track. We will need some cars before we can expect a track to pic up the class. Just a few more Racers out there willing to commit, and this will be a done deal. It takes a commitment, and the realization that some of the High dollar items that were purchased to race UMP will not be allowed. How about some of you other UMP car owners in the Houston area, are the high costs getting you down or forcing you to consider getting out of racing or dropping to a lower class? This B-Mod class will allow you to use your existing chassis.


OK!!!! Here is your chance!!!!

Baytown (HRP) Will run both Fri. & Sat. nights next year!!! If we stick togather maybe we can get them to run IMCA Mods on friday nights!!!! This would be like having YOUR B-Mods!!!

If you want this call Gerald at HRP & tell him so.....

------------------
Hotrodracer

Blue Moon
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 32
posted December 02, 2001 10:23 AM  
I've watched Bmods for years in Iowa. This last year the number of Bmods really increased. At one track there was even a B feature as 28 Bmods showed up. I think it is a great classs for those wanting to move up and for those who have a limited budget. Look for this class of cars to become more popular. I even heard that IMCA is going to sanction this class in 2003 which is about time! Wissota has a Bmod class called the Midwest Modified Class although in Wissota they can run Hoosier tires. As far as speed, they may not be as fast but they are just as competitive.

General
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 151
posted December 18, 2001 12:20 AM  
Here Here for B-Mods!!

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