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Author Topic:   Gator Speedway no IMCA's what gives ?????
brownstone
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted August 02, 2001 04:41 PM  
I just read on the gator speedway website that they are dropping IMCA mods in favor of outlaw mods after 8-4-01.

Anybody know why this happened or what the reason was ?

This is bad news for the Houston area, now more than likely all modified classes here will be big buck motor mods.


Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 284
posted August 02, 2001 08:22 PM           send a private message to brownstone   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Or better yet, What the heck is an Outlaw Modified? Does anyone have a copy of the new Rules they can post? Can I run my Hoosier Super Dirt Stocker's or what? How about Beadlock's? Are they gonna have a Wing?

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 284
posted August 06, 2001 03:17 PM           send a private message to brownstone   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Still no word on Gator? Does anyone have a copy of the new rules they can post? Any information about Gator would be appreciated.

racinrich66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 56
posted August 07, 2001 08:29 AM  
Looks like its going to be outlaw ump. But you can run a hoosier, mcreary or a goodyear. Sounds pretty stupid to me. His reasoning is he thinks he will get more cars. The guy has the only IMCA track for hundreds of miles and he wont even give it a year. Way to go Randy!
Richard. 66m

olexiewicz
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted August 07, 2001 09:26 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by brownstone:
I just read on the gator speedway website that they are dropping IMCA mods in favor of outlaw mods after 8-4-01.

Anybody know why this happened or what the reason was ?

This is bad news for the Houston area, now more than likely all modified classes here will be big buck motor mods.


Maby it is because people at gator,(and many other places) are tired of
getting ******* by IMCA. I mean we the racers
pay our fee to join IMCA, run our cars by there rules, run there "spec" tires, mufflers
, heads in some places, wheels and many other
"MUST RUN" items at our expense and it's making a lot of people in IMCA a bunch a money. considering that IMCA gets a kick back from every vender that supplies parts that we must run. and WHAT DO WE GET???????


racinfan
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 3
posted August 07, 2001 09:40 PM  
According to promoter, the track was fined by IMCA and they are unable to pay the fine. Additionally, there are UMP drivers that are wanting to come race there and to satisfy them Gator Speedway has opted to "lose" the IMCA sanction. However, a quick phone call to IMCA can verify that they have not been fined, and the reason for the change, as told to drivers, is not the truth. It is a fact that IMCA and majority of drivers wanted to keep it like it was, the promoter wanted to change it. Who benefits??

BILLY BOB
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 101
posted August 08, 2001 08:53 AM  
As far as spec items go I feel IMCA is the best sanction. If people would understand that they are trying to regulate the class by making certain items the same for everyone instead of letting the guy with major dollars dominate.
Someone brought up mufflers? If you do not regulate what muffler is run then you will have a huge problem trying to tech the car. Who has a decibal checker? They mandate an inexpensive muffler that quiets the cars and is small and easy to adapt to any header.
Tires is the next thing, An A-D-H-mod was a Hoosier tire developed especially for the UMP modified. Everytime one is bought Bob memmer is raking it in. I stand back and laugh at everyone thinking that IMCA ***** so badly when in 5 years ump type cars will just be latemodels without fenders. Heck there already darn near there now. To close out my point I do believe that the last time I checked IMCA pays out a healthy point fund. So I do believe that all those product liscense fees are for a reason. Generally I find as well that the people talking so much trash about an IMCA car and tire need the Hoosier to make up for their inadequate driving abilities. My two cents worth.

brownstone
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted August 09, 2001 07:19 PM  
I used to cry about IMCA and there spec tires and wheels etc. That was until I ran UMP for a few years. UMP motor prices to run up front far out price any of the stuff that IMCA makes you buy.

I heard a lot of whining about the claiming going on at Gator, and I think that is the real reason they are switching.

Houston Texas will soon out price itself out of the modified game for this reason, and if you dont realize it check the growing number of limited modifieds.

The mod class will soon be like late models with the haves and have nots. Its only a matter of time in Houston.

But dont let it bother you cause just as soon as the overpriced UMP mods run out cars to run against the same people will sell there cars and drop down to the limited mods, and out price that class, its been that way for years in the Houston area.


racinfan
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 3
posted August 10, 2001 01:15 AM  
Seems to me Gator could have handled the so-called whining if they had read the rules and been better prepared for the inevitable. I agree that we needed this track to run a class that was more afordable, no we're not all *****ing because we can't keep up with the Jones, it would have been logical to have a track stay within guidelines that more people could reach and be competitive at. The Houston area is all UMP and it is big bucks, there are some people who want to run the modified class and hoped that Gator Speedway would at least stick with it for one or two seasons. The claim can work there and the attempt was made that would have shown this to be true, however, there again Gator personnel did not know the rule book as well as they should have. I watched alot of drivers come back week after week hoping to see this new track and IMCA work it out--appears that IMCA held up to their end of the bargain. Now all that anyone can do is get ready for another big motor, big bucks, big kiss *** place to go donate. It's like having several Dillards and why not a WalMart? Sure wish the owners of this place REALLY knew what was going on??????

BILLY BOB
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 101
posted August 10, 2001 03:33 PM  
Brownstone is exactly right. Back in the early 90's when I lived in Houston we all raced at Big H speedway. The Superstock and Latemodel guys were out spending the budget racers and the classes died. Along that time the IMCA modified was introduced. Guess what? A lot of IMCA's with superstock and latemodel motors started cropping up. Then if you claim your the jerk. Pretty soon the dollar guys got the sanction changed to UMP so they could hook up the horsepower. At houston raceway park I hear it takes at least 15,000 to keep up. And my sources are good. One motor there has an 18,000 dollar price tag. Pretty common knowledge. Not the exception but the rule. It is unfortunate you guys were not given a fair shot at fair racing at Gator, hope everything works out for you.

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 315
posted August 10, 2001 06:41 PM  
i think yall are crazy...i been going to HRP all year and i dont know of any ump drivers dropping to the limited mod class.. as far as the 15,000 to "compete".. i dont know what thats all about..there are guys running up front with alot of experience.. and could pretty near get in anyone out theres car and run in the front... as far as the 18,000 dollars on a motor...just would make me want to outrun him even more with what i have..and i know i cant afford that so i dont worry about it...i just run consistant laps..and be up there at the end..this post started out as like..'what happend to gator and IMCA'.. now it sounds like a bashing UMP..and HRP and other houston area tracks.... HRP is prolly the finest dirt track i know of. and i feel privalaged to live within 30 mins of it..so i can race there...sure they may do some things a little 'different' than other tracks..but its all for the benifit of the fans......and we all know that if it were not for them.........we wouldnt even be racing nothing.....just my dimes worth....cost keeps going up everyday.........

[This message has been edited by MOD RACER#93 (edited August 10, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by MOD RACER#93 (edited August 10, 2001).]

racinfan
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 3
posted August 11, 2001 02:53 AM  
Mod Racer, you are right, this post is not about the history of modified racing in the Houston area, however, history does have a way of repeating itself and in this case that would not be in the best interest of the IMCA modified class, which is what Gator Speedway started out to be. At the beginning of the year, first of the season, it was a rough road to hoe, few cars, etc, etc. Then the count grew. And it went from three to five to more, to more, to over 15 at a time. All the regulars agreed to the cut in purse, and most of them kept coming back, hoping to get this track established as an IMCA track. Rules and all. Claims and all. Heck, even the national champion was at risk, and we all know that's a whole new story in itself. Irregardless, this track established itself as an IMCA sanctioned track and the local community responded. The car count increased week by week, and when the rock was cookin' the new track promotor got scared!! So what if it takes a few years to get it going, in the long run a good, solid, consistently ran race track will not bow to a few friends demands. And that is exactly what happened here. The promoter may own the parts wagon (go figure!!!!) but he also needs to realize he has no expertise in race track management and is helping bring an end to something that could have been a good thing. Let's make sure this is understood. We have two UMP tracks in this area, one pays 1000.00 to win, and one pays 700.00 but will be going to 1000.00 under the new management. So..... Gator Speedway is not UMP, it is IMCA, the only one for over 120 miles, it pays 750.00 or less depending on the car count, and they (GATOR SPEEDWAY) decide to drop the IMCA sanction and compete with HRP and 105??? I need help understanding the logic here!!! In addition, IMCA wanted this track to stay alive, they sent a rep down to help the officials, they offer prize funds, etc. etc. And all of this happens with an absentee owner??? Who picked this new track manager/promoter??? Has he ever ran this class?? Has he ever been exposed to sanctioned racing??? There are alot of people who will forever wonder if this change from IMCA to Outlaw UMP doesn't have a negative response in this area. The general feeling is they couldn't run with the big dogs, or Gator was looking for instant gratification, or the promotor wanted his buddy system to go a long way. Problem is these good time folks won't ever get it figured out. They just take that 300.00 weekly paycheck and laugh all the way to the bank!!!! Short drive!!!

brownstone
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted August 12, 2001 03:32 PM  
I for one did not type this post to bash HRP or any other track in the Houston, I hope they all prosper and go a long time, with lots of support.

That being said since I run a mod and I cannot help but find Gators decision to stop the IMCA class a poor one.

It was mentioned in this post that takes a big buck motor to win at HRP and that is true when you put Howard Willis in good car with a high dollar motor the odds of winning diminish. Willis and Starnes both run some serious horspower at HRP and we all know that cost money, and I mean no offense towards them they both are good racers


The point is this with IMCA at GAtor it was a chance for a more leveled playing field of modified racing. Now that its gone we are back to big buck motor mods and thats the truth. I started this post to try and get the skinny on why Gator dropped IMCA, however I threw my opinion in as well and I suppose that lead to the discussion of mod history in the Houston area.

As far as HRP being a fine run facility I beg to differ. The facility is excellent but thats as far as it goes. ANyone that attended the first mod race of the year knows how poorly things can be handled there at times. This was a 50 lap fiasco where yellow laps were counted and the total green laps ran was about 7 and Howard Willis laughed all the way to the bank since he started from the pole. Worst run dirt race I have seen in 30 years of going.

FOr this reason many people travel the extra miles to 105, they know that HRP requires a big motor to win and since 105 is more of a bull ring they might have a chance.

This is my nickels worth.......

BILLY BOB
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 101
posted August 13, 2001 08:20 AM  
Sorry everybody. Didn't realize everyone would get out of shape.
I agree that Howard is a great driver and with a great car and engine he is awesome.
I don't feel I bashed anyone in my post just gave my oppinion of Houston area racing from the time period I lived there. I also offered my proof as to what type of engine program it takes to win at HRP. Just facts.
Lastly most threads on a forum get started on one thing and end on another. If they didn't the thread wouldn't have lasted this long.

brownstone
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted August 13, 2001 03:25 PM  
Billy Bob no offense taken here and I hope none given. Same as you, I was just throwing my opinion out there on Houston.

I hope things in Houston will get better for modified owners but I dont see it any time soon.

Engine costs to compete are skyrocketing and UMP's claim rule does zero to help keep engine cost down. THe only thing keeping it from going 100% to the dogs is that an 8 incbh tire will only take so much and when the track goes dry slick its harder to hook up a big motor.

In my opinion these two things are being overcome more and more by better chassis, driver skills, and cam selection.

As these three things improve we will see bigger and more expensive motors and thats whats going on in Houston.

When Gator went with IMCA I was pleased because IMCA has a harder tire and the claim is an actual threat unlike UMP.

These two things in my opinion have kept motor cost a little less in the IMCA mods and levelled the playing somewhat to allow a more competitive field of cars on a weekly basis.

As I mentioned its only my opinion.......


MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 315
posted August 13, 2001 07:37 PM  
i dont mean to say that hrp is the finest run facility around, its just fine track. ive been ******* blued and tattooed there, although the tattoo waz removable....i know the race at the beginning of the year your talking about. i didnt go race or watch but heard all about it. i went to the one at the end of the year prior, with a stock(late model) that waz enough. i waz fortunate to have two kinds of cars. i would have loved to compete with the mod but the entry waz ridiculous. i have never been to gator, but have heard its a nice track. its a shame to hear that if they were getting a fair amount of cars competeing in IMCA and they still dropped them. i agree the cost of ump is out there.. i race on a shoestring budjet, turning tires around instead of changing them. i work hard on my setup and driving style to try to compete with the big dogs...i spose its because im young that for me just racing with those guys is a thrill win lose or draw. hopefully everything will work out and we'll all have a place to race....

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 315
posted August 20, 2001 10:40 PM           send a private message to MOD RACER#93   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
I know for a fact there are several racers like me in the Houston area who want to race modifieds. We don't want to run Limited Mods, and we don't have the wallet to run UMP. So, now would be the time for B-Mods in the Houston area. I was looking forward to putting together an IMCA Mod and I was shooting for next season, now that's toast. I have been there done that when it comes to a high cost class, and I don't like it when I get outrun solely by the almighty dollar. There is still a chance next year one of Houston's tracks might run IMCA, but it's highly doubtfull, so what do you guy's think? Will there be a chance for B-Mods to run in Houston? I don't know about you, but I feel four classes of full bodied cars competing at a track on a full time basis is a little ancient, especially when we now have Limited Mods, Dwarf Cars, and Sprints running as well with the UMP Modifieds. If nothing else, I would like to see a full bodied class running lower than 2700lbs!!

brownstone
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted August 21, 2001 10:13 AM  
Racer4
I agree with you, I would love to see something in between, UMP and limited mod. The limited mod would require me to sell out and start over, the limited mod would just be too restricted. B mods would be great, I wonder if a promoter could be convinced ? Do you have ideas for rules to govern the bmods ?
Something to restrict the outragous cost of engines would be a good start.

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 284
posted August 21, 2001 12:33 PM           send a private message to brownstone   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
I brought up B-Mods due to the fact they seem popular elsewhere. I would Rather see Houston invent a new class. Something like Stock Modifieds, based on the old Stock car classes, since it's a dying class anyway.

Take a Modified run the Stock car tire rule, have the Stock Car engine rule but have a cam limit like 488 (or less maybe 466) from the street stock's, 2 barrel for alcohol, Gas using 750 vac sec Holley, have a weight limit like 2550-2600 (that's a 700 pound saving's over running a Stock Car, pretty smart racing if you ask me) and run the 2.02 iron head 200cc rule. Dome piston's? Why not? you could use a dome instead of angle milling. Class Must have a Cam rule to work!

I believe this class would be just as fast as UMP's (well allmost) but for less money. I also believe an IMCA or stock car trans rule would also be necessary to save money. (I was tinkering around with my engine analyzer last night, did you know the Limited mod engine rule is capable of over 400hp?) If you keep a lower cam profile (6000rpm) you enable the engine builder to use stock 5.7 rods and cast crank for a chevy. So a rod rule might be necessary and feasable. Use a 355 or 360 cube limit, and maybe even offer up to 406 cubes to racers on 2 barrel gas only.

I think this class would create a great following due to how fast it can be, also due to the slightly higher weight limit the older Mod chassis could still be competetive, even a home built mod can easily compete in this class, hence saving more money for the Racer. 3 working brakes minumum, aluminum single piston allowed on front only. Also the higher weight opens up possiblilities for different engine combo's than the norm, some medium blocks might even come into use (ala Ford). No Camaro clips or Vette clips, same as reg modifieds.

Engine Claim? maybe 600 and swap (no heads), Shock claim rule? definetly 35-50 bucks-no aluminum shocks. Of course engine specs are geared towards Chevy but by no means shood limit or prohibit other brand's from being competetive or even dominant!! The major differences between what I have here and B-Mod from what I have read is they run a Limited Mod motor and have IMCA or UMP tires, their just as heavy. I prefer what I have outlined above. Anybody have any serious input?

My Motto: Go as fast as you can for as little money as possible! I like to go fast, how about ya'll?!!

Ok Houston, It's Time For OUTLAW MODIFIEDS!!

[This message has been edited by Racer4 (edited August 21, 2001).]

brownstone
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted August 22, 2001 04:13 PM  
Well the big mystery of what a Outlaw Mod is has been revealed ha ha

Its nothing more than a UMP mod !!

What a joke.

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 284
posted August 22, 2001 05:51 PM           send a private message to brownstone   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB

"What a joke."


Honestly, I alway's wondered why nobody ever wanted to run a limited motor Modified with a better tire rule. If you basically take an IMCA mod and put a real tire like the Hoosier super dirt stocker, don't you have a really fast car? I just spoke with someone last weekend and he is looking for some 2000 dollar Sprint car heads for his UMP modified, that's rediculous! I was making serious suggestion for a new class in Houston. Why is it so humorous? I don't understand, can you explain it to me.
I am talking about a Modified with a less expensive engine ( that's what everybody wants ) and a better tire to make up for less horsepower ( that's what everybody wants) and add some weight so lightweight high-dollar parts are useless ( that's what everybody wants). You mean nobody wants this?

BILLY BOB
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 101
posted August 24, 2001 08:50 AM  
And when you run less motor with your bigger tire and the next guy is running more motor than you he is still faster because he has more motor. Sounds like a ump deal to me only with even bigger tires. Because very few tracks have tech people capable of doing there jobs cheating is going to happen. And who wants to build a car to run at one track? To me bigger tires isn't the answer. It just lets the guys with horsepower go fast.
How about take a mod chassis. Run street tires, Holley 500's on gasoline. And to top it off put a 1000 dollar claimer on the motor intake to pan, water pump to clutch (everything goes) Sounds cheap to me?

Racer4
unregistered Total posts: 101
posted August 24, 2001 04:24 PM           send a private message to BILLY BOB   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
The spec heads came from the Stock car class. I think it's good reasoning, you can run any factory cast iron head or run the Dart 200cc heads and save on all the machine work. There are an awfull lot of Iron heads out there with acid port work etc etc. You can run the pop up to save on any need for angle milling, run a stock rod and cast crank rule. It's usually pretty easy to spot somebody with an illegal cam, they lope pretty bad (vacuum test too)(this is a $2000 or less longblock spec engine here). And if you want to run an IMCA track, just change your tires and setup and your there. Why would somebody put all the expense into a real mod chassis if they can't run any motor or even go fast? They would be better off running a limited Mod. This would eliminate the 10,ooo dollar motors you see in UMP and make up for that loss of speed with some better tires. This is cheaper speed. If you can't make up for setup with the better tire to over come somebody with a little more motor, how can you do it with any other tire or circumstance, with that attitude you have lost the race before you unloaded the car (this is the benefit of running the mod chassis to begin with right?). With this tire and spec motor you will be putting the Mod chassis through it's paces for real! For those guy's with the money they can put there UMP motor in and change tires to run at a UMP track just as if it were an IMCA car.


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