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Author Topic:   Iron Duke ???
Shawn P Martin
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 33
posted January 07, 2005 08:13 PM  
I found a Monza w/2.5 needs some parts and told motor is an IRON DUKE. Can I make this a descent mini-stock? Find that most tracks in Texas wont allow IRON DUKE for Jr.minis. nothing posted about mini.

Anybody have an idea?

Xtrem4U
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 144
posted January 08, 2005 06:37 AM  
The iron duke 2.5, in stock condition will not be run close to either a mustang or toyota. Even spending a couple thousand on them will not help. They were very succesful on the Nascar Goody's Series, before they switched from 4cly. to 6 cly.. If you want to talk to the man that made the iron duke famous (he built the nascar ones) call- Vanderly Racing, Bilouxi(however ya spell that) Mississippi.

rnoswal53
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted January 08, 2005 03:06 PM  
Another good source for Iron Duke information is on the Fiero forums. That is the engine they had for their 5 year run. It is interesting about how they say no Iron Duke engines. From all that I have read, there is not much you can do to a stock engine. If you replace everything with the really high dollar Chevy aftermarket performance parts, then they are fast, but I hear that is over $10,000.00 dollars. A bit much for most of us. I understand there are some running in Longview Texas with mixed results. Old engine with old technology.

Russ

Shawn P Martin
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 33
posted January 08, 2005 03:30 PM  
Thanks Guys:

I raced an 83 mustang last year for 6 races. And need new car for this year. Was trying to choose between mustang w/ worked head,monza w/ worked 2.5 IronDuke, and celica GT w/ worked 20r motor. Looks like toyota is best to get up front and stay up front. What you think? I race at Thunderbird,and GPS in Texas.

Thanks

ss4dirtslinger
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 24
posted January 08, 2005 09:44 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Shawn P Martin:
I found a Monza w/2.5 needs some parts and told motor is an IRON DUKE. Can I make this a descent mini-stock? Find that most tracks in Texas wont allow IRON DUKE for Jr.minis. nothing posted about mini.

Anybody have an idea?



i run a 2.5 if you need some motor points i will email them to you dont have no trouble with the ford and didnt spend 10000.00

Xtrem4U
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 144
posted January 09, 2005 07:01 AM  
I run a 2.6 stroked toyota-these used to be a walk away engine. Now with the ford guys running the 2850, with a roller cam, these two are pretty close. You can have a very competive, toyota, using stock crank, stock rods, 22r block-bored 3.700(94mm),wiseco lite dome pistons& rings (about$500.00), use the 20r head-have someone that knows what they are doing, work the head, you have to use the big springs,( or get stage 5 from LC, about $1500.00), 350-holley or motorcraft carb. Monies well spent 6 quart oil pan, ($300.00 LC). This toyota setup is very competive, without braking the bank.

rnoswal53
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted January 09, 2005 09:06 AM  
Try this thread from an older file about building a reliable Iron Duke.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055858.html

If this doesn't work, try going to Pennock's Fiero forum or do a Fiero forum search and go to that forum. You might have to register, free, and look in the search portion for Iron Duke performance. Try different wordings for that subject and see what they have to offer. They have links to different sites that deal with the Iron Duke build up.

Mostly they deal with the Super Duty 4 engine build. If you can get this page to work, it has some great pictures of the stock Iron Duke and what this guy says about it and the newer rebuild, with pictures. Very interesting reading.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055858.html

Russ

jammin james
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 118
posted January 09, 2005 09:08 AM  
ss4dirtslinger, i'll take all the info i can get on the 2.5 my brother just pulled his monza out of the woods and the engine is due from the engine builder in the next week or two. I think our biggest issues now is clutch(stock type)and header.engine builder was pretty confident that we got a good piece to run w/them fords,but it had been a while since he had built one.
thanks

ss4dirtslinger
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 24
posted January 09, 2005 10:51 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by jammin james:
ss4dirtslinger, i'll take all the info i can get on the 2.5 my brother just pulled his monza out of the woods and the engine is due from the engine builder in the next week or two. I think our biggest issues now is clutch(stock type)and header.engine builder was pretty confident that we got a good piece to run w/them fords,but it had been a while since he had built one.i will email the parts # for the toyota and ford they cant figure out the cc for the 151 it is 2474 stock i run a 3057
thanks


rnoswal53
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted January 10, 2005 08:51 AM  
Hmmmmmm you must have found an old marine engine. They were 3 litre if I remember right. That seemed like a pretty good engine too.

Russ

2FAST4U
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 175
posted January 11, 2005 09:21 PM  
dude you cant go wrong with a ford. you can get parts cheaper. and you can make them faster.you can run a stock rebuild bottom end and dump some money in the head and you have a top 5 car.the yota's cant touch us around here,

speedyd1
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 170
posted January 13, 2005 07:33 AM  
i'll give you guys a little more info here -
the monza will out handle anything you guys can get with the ford or the toyota. it has unequal length control arms up front and a torque link rear. as far as parts go - KSGerry can get you the real stuff if you can afford it. otherwise you can go to gmpartsdirect.com and look at all the options for the pontiac super duty four engines. think of it as a stock 4" bore motor with long rods (6") and buy one of the cast performance heads from the above with a good cam etc. the heads are like 800-1000.00.
they have intakes,ignition, etc. it doesnt cost any more to build one than your ford does. the only problems you will have are with the car itself. body panels are darn near impossible to find when you need them.
most people dont realize that the GM car is superior in almost every category except availability. it gives up a little to the overhead cam design of the fords and toy's but makes it back up in the bore size and rod length. stroke it with a marine crank and now you have a 3.0 engine pushing 181 cubic inches and you have a real monster.good luck. let me know if you need any more info. i have quite a collection of iron duke literature from our days of running them.and by the way - before you guys beat me up - i specailize in the 2.3 fords and build dozens for guys around here every year. i in fact drive a ford with the good stuff in it. not because its better - just more readily available.

Shawn P Martin
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 33
posted January 13, 2005 07:49 AM  
10-4
I am greatful for your post because the deal on the monza comes with anothe roller for 50.00 so carb., radiator, fuelcell, and seat, and I am ready to go w/ Monza including back up car. I already found a 3.0 Merc. Cruiser to start the bad boy motor then. Thanks all, and when you see that Monza way up front It will be me. Don't protest now just take that whoopen like a man.LOL

Seriously I thank all Yall
Shawn P. Martin

dhsrcjh
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 59
posted January 13, 2005 09:24 AM  
I am trying to help a friend with an iron duke engine. I will take all the info that anyone will send me on them.
Thanks

speedyd1
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 170
posted January 14, 2005 06:14 AM  
i also have three monza hatchbacks if you guys need anything. all are complete. one has been stripped and ready to build.email me if you need something - speedyd1@aol.com.

Shawn P Martin
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 33
posted January 14, 2005 08:59 AM  
Where are you located. We are in Seagoville Texas(7miles east of Dallas Tx.). I also found two really bad__s Saabs for sale. Now I am really confused on what to do. They are front wheel drives and that is best for a dry slick track. Just thinking out loud.....Shawn

ss4dirtslinger
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 24
posted January 14, 2005 01:04 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by speedyd1:
i also have three monza hatchbacks if you guys need anything. all are complete. one has been stripped and ready to build.email me if you need something - speedyd1@aol.com.

NEED2 FENDERS DONT MATTER IF THEY ARE RUSTY

rnoswal53
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted January 15, 2005 12:36 AM  
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055858.html

Like I posted before, check this thread about building a competitive Iron Duke engine, which is no longer an Iron Duke but a Super Duty engine based on a block from Pontiac. See the comments about the Iron Duke engine. There are more references in that forum if you car to look.

Russ

Shawn P Martin
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 33
posted January 18, 2005 01:04 PM  
10-4 checked out post on Fiero, but parts are still really high. The clubs for the Fiero are keeping prices up there.

Thanks
Shawn

speedyd1
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 170
posted January 20, 2005 10:23 AM  
send a private email if you need parts. i'll sell all 3 cars real cheap. i'm in atlanta.
i have flatbeds going to and from dallas and houston quite often and could deliver them if you can unload them. most have no rust. i believe two are complete with motors etc. i think they are autos though.i'll work with you if you are serious about doing business.

grywll42
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 14
posted February 03, 2005 04:57 PM  
Unless you want to spend a whole lotta cash, build the 2.5 Iron duke. I would look into building up a 3.0 mercruiser motor(181 cu.in). I"ve been running one for two years with no problems, i"m in the top 5 unless a crash happens.I ran a 2.5 iron duke for 2 seasons before this motor when a bad cam ended that. the ironduke's crank is not fully counterweighted, I have heard from several racers that it is considered a pretzel when a load is put on it. the 181 isn't as hard to find parts, go to marinas around any body of water. the motor runs rings around the 151 , the 30 xtra cubes helps too.

jammin james
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 118
posted February 04, 2005 03:04 PM  
how can you visually tell the mercruiser engine from a iron duke(block #)? will the 3.0 crank fit in the 2.5 block??
thanks

DIRTEATER17
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 1
posted February 04, 2005 08:32 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by jammin james:
how can you visually tell the mercruiser engine from a iron duke(block #)? will the 3.0 crank fit in the 2.5 block??
thanks


the 181 block is a inch taller the crank will work in the 151 block with a special rod

grywll42
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 14
posted February 04, 2005 09:05 PM  
most of the 181 motors at least the older ones were cast in mexico, they'll say Hecho en mexico on the side. Some blocks were cast in the usa though. The cyl head is much better than the crossflow on the 151. they are similar to a sbc in valve size and port size. some stuff inter changes with the 151 like water pumps,timing gears etc. camshafts,distributors, heads will not.I don't know about the crankshafts interchanging never tried it. alot of stuff for the 181 can be gotten at the local auto parts store, just tell them the motor is a 153 out of a 69-70 nova. most all parts off a 153 fit a 181 just hard to find a 153, they didn't make too many , the 181 they have been making for over 30 years.

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted February 05, 2005 06:02 AM  
I've got several 3.25 inch stroke crankshafts on the shelf for the 153 cid GM "Chevy II" or marine engine...one fully machined and one core.

They can be used in older GM 2.5 "R" engines found in vehicles lke a Chevy Monza or Pontiac Fiero. The rod journals are wider and take an inline GM 1.029" connecting rod.

The 181 crankshaft will fit too. However, you must find one used prior to 1989 as those had the internal rear main seal. Any 181 or 3.0 GM marine engine after that uses a seal housing that bolts on the back of the block similar to a late model GM V-8.

The 181 or 3.0 crankshaft uses wider journal rods too.

Regards,
Gerry Dedonis
dedonis@kans.com

------------------
KSGerry

dirttracker98
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 284
posted February 08, 2005 08:25 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by speedyd1:
i'll give you guys a little more info here -
the monza will out handle anything you guys can get with the ford or the toyota. it has unequal length control arms up front and a torque link rear. as far as parts go - KSGerry can get you the real stuff if you can afford it. otherwise you can go to gmpartsdirect.com and look at all the options for the pontiac super duty four engines. think of it as a stock 4" bore motor with long rods (6") and buy one of the cast performance heads from the above with a good cam etc. the heads are like 800-1000.00.
they have intakes,ignition, etc. it doesnt cost any more to build one than your ford does. the only problems you will have are with the car itself. body panels are darn near impossible to find when you need them.
most people dont realize that the GM car is superior in almost every category except availability. it gives up a little to the overhead cam design of the fords and toy's but makes it back up in the bore size and rod length. stroke it with a marine crank and now you have a 3.0 engine pushing 181 cubic inches and you have a real monster.good luck. let me know if you need any more info. i have quite a collection of iron duke literature from our days of running them.and by the way - before you guys beat me up - i specailize in the 2.3 fords and build dozens for guys around here every year. i in fact drive a ford with the good stuff in it. not because its better - just more readily available.


I guess that is the reason for professional built $10,000 to $12,000 2300 CC plus engines for racing,is to whoop~up on them dukes!!

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