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Author Topic:   Setting Rules for next season
speeronline
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted December 19, 2004 06:32 PM  
I am noticing that when we started out the ministock class at our track the rules were not enforced and so people knew they could modify their cars to win and not get DQ'ed 2 years later we are now making new rules and are faced with low car count and we are using rules from other tracks to draw their cars on off nights. BUT it has turned into a mini modified class instead of "stock" is this a cycle that everyone goes through? How do you keep a cheap class that is fun to run? Motor Claim? Looking for opinions so leterrip!
Speeronline

b4racing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 626
posted December 19, 2004 07:08 PM  
I have saw rules that add weight to winners if they win 3 in a row and I have ran under rules that say if you win then the next week you go tail back for feature. Also we ran by points avg. finish the higher you avg. finish the further back you start.

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted December 19, 2004 08:47 PM  
If this is supposed to be a strictly stock budget class then put a fair dollar claim or exchange on the whole car with an option for the "new" owner to pay for safety items such as seat, seat belts, fuel cell, window net, etc. Many tracks allow those items to be kept by the "old" owner.

Some car builders will spend the off-season building claimer cars to sell or allowed to be claimed. This raises the car count and the builder makes a little money for the effort.

If there is an existing class that is more "modified" than stock, then create another class if feasible.

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KSGerry

[This message has been edited by KSGerry (edited December 19, 2004).]

speeronline
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted December 20, 2004 06:47 PM  
That is the problem KSG. We are getting low car count and not getting as much growth as we would like. So they are making the rules so that the outatown modified group can come in and tear our tails up. I am not sure that this is a good way to build the class... maybe bring in more cars in the short term but I would like to see more local cars being built. any other suggestions?
Speeronline

19J
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted December 20, 2004 06:58 PM  
Our track has that same problem. A guy won 6 in a row promoter "claimed" him and told him i want to "impound" your car find out why it is so fast. He said NO right away. He was stomping the track champ. So he lost his points sat 2 weeks out and came back and started winning again. His car is far from stock everyone knows it. I think there should be a tear down rule. But in your case it wouldnt work. If they refuse tear down rule tell them not to come back. Other than that cant beat em join i like following rules but if you have to do it. A lot of the 4 cyl game is in the head.

b4racing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 626
posted December 20, 2004 07:57 PM  
You know for a regular show I don't think I would tear mine down at the track. To much dirt and grime to get into the motor.

popeye14709
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 86
posted December 21, 2004 04:00 AM  
At our track we have a $200.00 tear down rule also the TRACK OWNERS my CLAIM your motor for $600.00 and at the end of the season if you want your motor back you pay $600.00 also we have a 2500 pound weight rule and if your a multi-valve its 2800lbs also we have to have a STOCK motor but there is lots of greys in this rule due to the .040 over clean-up a no more than a .454 lift cam also we run a solid set up others run the hydrolic but you cannot run a roller. Tires we have to use street DOT's NO RACING TIRES or softing of tires there is a durometer rule of 50 when hot. also if you win 5 races or more the owners can ask you to move up...the bodies must remain steel no alluminum....no gutting of car floors must remain trunk must be in tack and no **** -pitting these are just a few of the rules also no headers an ALL CAST manifold is what you have to run..stock flywheel and clutch at time they will pull these and weigh them also a 1" inspection hole is requiered in oil pan so tech can see crank, and rods...BUT techs are the key though if you put it in the rule book its up to them to enforce the rules if they dont know what they are looking for then it game over.

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Dirt is for Racing Asphalt is for Getting there!

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted December 21, 2004 05:55 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by speeronline:
That is the problem KSG. We are getting low car count and not getting as much growth as we would like. So they are making the rules so that the outatown modified group can come in and tear our tails up. I am not sure that this is a good way to build the class... maybe bring in more cars in the short term but I would like to see more local cars being built. any other suggestions?
Speeronline

A claim or whole car exchange rule for a budget class car is the most equitable way to level the field. The tech inspectors only need to look at safety modificatiions and not be concerned with expensive modifications to engines or suspension as they know another competitor or the track can simply claim the car.

What it sounds like to me is there are other tracks that race an "improved" class of cars and your track has decided it is beneficial to lure those racers to compete. It may be time for you local "stock" racers to improve your cars or start another class. You must be able to prove to your track that your "stock" group can attract enough racers. That seems to be the issue here. You "stock" racers are not providing enough cars.

Racing is always in a state of change and evolvement. The tracks are going to go with what brings in the fans and the most racers.

Regards,
Gerry Dedonis
Chapman, Kansas

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KSGerry

fsracer
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 15
posted December 21, 2004 08:35 AM  
We have a car at our track that has around $3000.00 in the the motor. Our track champion has around $500.00 in his motor, and won 11 features in 04. The problem is he really had to race his rear end off to win. The rules need to be enforced. Let's face it,if you are running a mini-stock it's to have fun on a tighter budget,not for the money. Oh yeah,we have a claimer,and the $3000 motor was claimed but refused.So the driver lost points for that night. Our rules state stock bottom end,no roller cams.

[This message has been edited by fsracer (edited December 21, 2004).]

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted December 21, 2004 04:43 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by fsracer:
We have a car at our track that has around $3000.00 in the the motor. Our track champion has around $500.00 in his motor, and won 11 features in 04. The problem is he really had to race his rear end off to win. The rules need to be enforced. Let's face it, if you are running a mini-stock it's to have fun on a tighter budget, not for the money. Oh yeah,we have a claimer,and the $3000 motor was claimed but refused. So the driver lost points for that night. Our rules state stock bottom end,no roller cams.

Question...
Was the car or engine that was claimed and refused allowed to race at the next event with the car and engine in the same configuration? If so, then why?

If the track champion had to "race his rear-end off to win" then isn't that the point of racing? Sorry, I fail to see your point there.

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KSGerry

[This message has been edited by KSGerry (edited December 21, 2004).]

fsracer
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 15
posted December 22, 2004 12:25 PM  
The claimed engine was allowed to run the next week without changing anything. The motor was claimed again at the last race of the season,but the track would not allow it. The only problem with racing his rearend off part is that when we unload our cars, they should all be within the rules. It took alot of luck and teamwork from other mini stockers to keep the track champion going. We all race hard and enjoy it.

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted December 22, 2004 03:05 PM  
Here's my opinion. The more rules you make the more tech you need, the more time you need, the more things one can holler "cheater" for, the more ways to cheat, the more money it takes to cheat, the more everything. Tracks need to do one thing to 4cyl classes: *I'm saying this and it would junk nearly everything I own*

MEASURE OCTANE!!!! 87 MAX.
Test kits available rather cheap.

And every engine builder in the world will scratch his head from Atlantic to Pacific trying to beat that rule and for all that scratching he'll get very few hp!!

The best racer will win!! no matter what the rules. And there will always be someone finishing behind the winner that complains.

But the funnest and most competitive classes race an 8 inch tire rule with no exotic fuels and minimum weights of around 2350 to 2500 lb. These rules will generate the most satisfaction in the racer *gives him something to think about all the time* and the best show for the fans. And you can go to about any track and race and compete.

The biggest problem with tracks and 4cyl classes is promotion and respect. Its hard to develop interest in a class or want to continue to race at a track that uses the class just for paying for the big car show.

Our track has 20+ four cylinders every night. Would have way more if the track hadn't figuritively stole from the other twenty. You never know from year to year if they are even going to run the class. Enforce rules only when someone whines. Show extreme favoritism. ect.ect.ect.ect.

Tracks:
"If you want cars then you have to treat everyone the same. All racers at the track will respect each other. You don't have to run the Late model show first ALL THE TIME~~~~The fans leave they gain absolutely no interest in the other classes. Cars don't bring fans to the track, Fans bring cars to the track!!!!!!!!
Its hard for a guy to want to race when he wins at 1:00 am in the morning and all that greets him in the winners circle is his friends to load the car back on the hauler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I knew a kid that raced for ten years and never won a thing. Won the feature one night and there was all of about 10 fans in the stands. The rest had either left or were walking to their cars. Needless to say his desire to race left, along with his car and his money and the 10 fans that went to the track with him every week.



KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted December 22, 2004 03:12 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by fsracer:
The claimed engine was allowed to run the next week without changing anything. The motor was claimed again at the last race of the season, but the track would not allow it.

It seems to me if the claim was refused by the engine's owner then the other racers have two options...

1). Race whatever components you want...legal or illegal and refuse any claim.
Or
2). Boycott the track until the track enforces their own rules.

Evidently, the "$3000.motor" was not a factor in the championship. However...legal is legal and a claim is a claim. It should have been enforced unless there is more to your story than what is written.

Regards,
Gerry Dedonis

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KSGerry

[This message has been edited by KSGerry (edited December 22, 2004).]

fsracer
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 15
posted December 22, 2004 07:59 PM  
KSG you are correct about the motor not making a difference in the championship, because the driver was the difference. But,they put a very experienced driver in it for the last 3 races of the season. He won all 3 races, 2 by 1/2 a lap. All I'm saying is if the track makes rules they need to enforce them, not punish the one's that follow the rules. We don't run Pro-4's, we run Mini-Stocks at our track.
We have gotten a commitment from track ownership for mor stringent tech.
Oh yeah,there is more to the story than I was telling you. The motor was claimed because the driver was running over a lot of cars,and rather than put the car in the wall, we claimed it. And the track officials were PO'd because of the claim.

[This message has been edited by fsracer (edited December 22, 2004).]

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted December 22, 2004 08:56 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by juliaferrell:
...It's hard for a guy to want to race when he wins at 1:00 am in the morning and all that greets him in the winners circle is his friends to load the car back on the hauler!
I knew a kid that raced for ten years and never won a thing. Won the feature one night and there was all of about 10 fans in the stands. The rest had either left or were walking to their cars. Needless to say his desire to race left, along with his car and his money and the 10 fans that went to the track with him every week.[/B]

Our local track has a three hour time limit on racing. The program starts at 7 and will conclude by 10. There are two nights of racing instead of trying to run seven classes on a single night.

Things to speed up the program...and improve a driver's mentality is the "Yellow Flag Rule". If a driver causes a yellow flag then he parks the car and is disqualified for that event.

"A" Feature races are 15 laps instead of 20, 25 or 30 laps. There are no transfers from Semi-features so there is no reason to wait for those cars to refuel or make changes. The pay-out for Semi-features is not that much less than the "A" Features.

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KSGerry

[This message has been edited by KSGerry (edited December 22, 2004).]

19J
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted December 23, 2004 11:10 AM  
The claim rule hardly ever works. We had one for $250 the WHOLE car. except safety stuff and battery. We had two claims. It wasnt a grudge it was legit. He denied both times same car 2 diff seasons. The first was a driver claim. The second was a promoter. I think it should say if you refuse promoter claim dont come back. Expecially if you are gonna get your car back. B4 so i take it your valve cover or air cleaner NEVER comes off at the track. We are usually the last race. Just depends on cautions. The class with the most usually goes last. So dirt flying around wouldnt be a problem.

b4racing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 626
posted December 23, 2004 03:54 PM  
I just have a hard time tearing it down in the middle with all the dust. I mean I have btwn 6-7000 in mine and just cann't take that chance.

rnoswal53
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted December 26, 2004 08:03 AM  
We lost our class. No one could afford to get started in our class. Drivers shoot themselves in the foot by always wanting more and more. I went to a rules meeting at a track an hour away. The first thing one guy wanted was to allow aluminum heads on his Ford. The class was shrinking and they were trying to come up with rules that would at least keep the cars they had.
I spoke up and told them how we lost our class. Race tires, no weight rules, no teching, etc........... I said that sometimes you just have to say no! Leave it alone. The tech guys don't seem to want to tech a 4 banger anyway, but keep things simple and the same so they get used to looking forand at the same things.
The track really has to get the fans interested in the class. There is a big push to limit classes to 4 classes. Fans want to see passing. Put the fast guys in the back!
It seems that the tracks with the largest car count in the mini class are the ones with the rules closest to stock. If they want to go faster, move to a V-8 class. They may not actually go faster, but they are louder and they seem faster to the fans. Keep it simple!!! Rotate the features. The tracks want to make a profit off of us drivers and fans, but seldom does it seem they want to go to the effort to have a nice tech area, so no wonder we don't want to tear our stuff down!
Last, but not least is getting the local media invloved. If you can get some of the tv or radio people into your car, the track will promote it.....Big time!! They are having track owner seminars in Las Vegas each year and they are telling them how to make their tracks work. That is fine, but each track needs the cars and the drivers input, maybe class by class, but more heads can be better than one.
The owners usually win, so we must make our class very visable and keep the numbers up. They are going to get rid of the classes with less than 20 cars.

Of course that is just my opinion and I could be wrong!

Russ

speeronline
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted December 29, 2004 04:51 PM  
Thanks for the info Russ... That sounds a lot like what we are facing. I like the 87 Octane rule. Well It doesn't matter now >> they already have the rules and I am going to have to spend money to compete.
Speeronline

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