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Author Topic:   volvo dohc head swap onto a 2.3l ford ?
widebody
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 296
posted June 03, 2004 10:11 AM  
This is for an engine tat runs in an outlaw 4cyl class. the base engine is a 2.3l ford and Im looking for info on the volve 16v head that will swap onto this block
does anyone have direct knowledge or info about this head swap. I have a few internal oiling questions and wanted to know what mods you did and how they are working. there are a few ways to fix it and wanted to know what is working.. Thanks widebody

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted June 03, 2004 09:53 PM  
If you get the thing welded up in the back to completely cover block surface you can plug off all but the two cooling ports in the center and run two 1/4 in pipe tapped in center of cylinder. Pipe the water to the head externally. I experimented with this and had one running pretty well *equivalent to a decent roller setup* problem I had was getting a cam that would do what I was looking for. On turboford.org you can search the archive and they have information on this set up. I don't think I would get too excited about it.

MY 2 cents.

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted June 05, 2004 01:26 PM  
I suggest using the dual overhead cam all-aluminum 2.3 liter Ford-Mazda Duratec engine that has been used in Ranger and Mazda trucks since 2002.

A whole lot less work than installing a Volvo head on the old Ford 2.3 and a Duratec only weighs about 200 pounds!

Of course, you are welcome to check out my company's four cylinder that uses a V-8 small block cylinder head...GM, Ford or Mopar.

Regards,
Gerry Dedonis
Kansas Racing Products Inc. http://www.kansasracingproducts.com

[This message has been edited by KSGerry (edited June 05, 2004).]

widebody
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 296
posted June 06, 2004 08:48 PM  
thanks guys;
I love this site cold hard facts.. not sure what direction im going to go with this yet, but again thanks for the options, I checked out the site KSGerry. If your sponsoring Id love to run one, but a bit out of my price range.. Thanks anyways..

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted June 07, 2004 08:16 AM  
KSGerry,

Would you know where any of your good used stuff might be? I would like to try one of the KRP engines *Ford style* but 12,500 is a little out of range for $150 to win racing.

What kind of HP numbers would an engine like that make. Similar to half a small block of equal parts ect?

Thanks,

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted June 07, 2004 12:06 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by juliaferrell:
KSGerry,

Would you know where any of your good used stuff might be? I would like to try one of the KRP engines *Ford style* but 12,500 is a little out of range for $150 to win racing.

What kind of HP numbers would an engine like that make. Similar to half a small block of equal parts etc.?

Thanks,


I've got a used KRP dry sump engine with a Brodix Track 1 Ford V-8 small block head for sale. This was a 2.6 liter (158 cubic inch, 4.000 bore x 3.100 stroke) built for the ARCA Truck Series. As it needs a rebuild, I can go several ways on selling it depending upon what parts you want to purchase. I'll sell it for $6000.dollars as-is or $8000.dollars completely rebuilt. Also, I can sell the block, head, crankshaft, etc. separately if you want to assemble your own engine.

A "spec" ARCA Truck engine makes about 280-300 h.p. However, a naturally aspirated KRP engine used in NHRA drag competition makes over 400 h.p.

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KSGerry

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted June 07, 2004 12:11 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by widebody:
thanks guys;
I love this site cold hard facts.. not sure what direction im going to go with this yet, but again thanks for the options, I checked out the site KSGerry. If your sponsoring Id love to run one, but a bit out of my price range.. Thanks anyways..

As you are on the East coast, check with this builder for an "outlaw" engine...
John Andruk at Circle Performance, http://www.circleperformance.com . Circle sepecializes is four cylinder race engines for many types of competition. His Ford dohc Duratecs are making over 350 h.p. in midget competition with NEMA.

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KSGerry

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted June 07, 2004 01:01 PM  
what kind of rpm range would the engine you have be made for?

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted June 07, 2004 03:12 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by juliaferrell:
what kind of rpm range would the engine you have be made for?

Camshaft lift limits for an ARCA Truck "spec" engine is about 7500 rpms. NHRA drag racers push a KRP engine to around 10,000 rpms.

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KSGerry

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted June 07, 2004 09:28 PM  
An arca engine is also limited to 12:1? I think that's what I read somewhere. If I were to get a block, crank, and camshaft from you *thinking about $$$* could I use a wet sump setup from parts off a normal IRON DUKE engine? What about ignition? Do you make intakes or where would I get an intake to use 500 holley. I guess you can use small block pistons, head, and pushrod, rocker arm setups and the like. I have alot of that stuff lying around. Can you bolt a standard mustange style bell housing? I'm very interested in trying one of these things. Can you use ford bellhousing setup and stock rotating assembly stuff? If you wouldn't have a cam that would work for me, where could I get one? Any of the usual places?? Sorry I have so many questions but I want to figure out the best way for my situation. Thanks very much for answering my questions on this.

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted June 08, 2004 06:07 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by juliaferrell:
An arca engine is also limited to 12:1? I think that's what I read somewhere. If I were to get a block, crank, and camshaft from you *thinking about $$$* could I use a wet sump setup from parts off a normal IRON DUKE engine? What about ignition? Do you make intakes or where would I get an intake to use 500 holley. I guess you can use small block pistons, head, and pushrod, rocker arm setups and the like. I have alot of that stuff lying around. Can you bolt a standard mustange style bell housing? I'm very interested in trying one of these things. Can you use ford bellhousing setup and stock rotating assembly stuff? If you wouldn't have a cam that would work for me, where could I get one? Any of the usual places?? Sorry I have so many questions but I want to figure out the best way for my situation. Thanks very much for answering my questions on this.

You are correct. ARCA mandated a 12-1 compression ratio along with "spec" Brodix Track 1 heads and displacement rules.

A KRP block can be machined by us to accept an internal high performance Pontiac Superduty-4 oil pump and wet sump pan. The distributor is also available from GM Performance Parts or from MSD. However, as I do have a complete, used KRP engine I've got a distributor too. KRP makes aluminum four barrel intake manifolds that bolt up to a V-8 small block cylinder head...GM, Ford or Mopar. Also, KRP makes a two barrel reducer-spacer as ARCA mandated a 390 cfm carburetor limit.

Regarding the bellhousing bolt pattern, most racers specify a small block GM pattern as it is the most common for aftermarket bellhousings. I'll have to check with our machinist to see what other patterns are available.

KRP has camshafts available or they can be purchased from cam manufacturers like Crane. A midget race engine also uses a V-8 head too.

Regards,
Gerry Dedonis

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KSGerry

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted June 08, 2004 10:44 AM  
I sure appreciate all this information. I was just curious about hooking one up to a ford bellhousing. I really don't care whether it has chevy head, rotating assembly and the like, just so it uses the ford bellhousing.

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted June 08, 2004 10:52 AM  
Also, Are they getting the 12:1 with domes? If I have a head, header, rods, pistons, rings, oil pump and pan, regular iron duke water pump, ect. How much would you need for the block set up for wet sump, crank, cam, distributor and intake.

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted June 08, 2004 10:59 AM  
One other question. What is the best way to mount these engines. So the head is setting straight up or slanted over to the side? I guess on a wet sump you would have to set it straight up?

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted June 08, 2004 04:29 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by juliaferrell:
Also, Are they getting the 12:1 with domes? If I have a head, header, rods, pistons, rings, oil pump and pan, regular iron duke water pump, etc. How much would you need for the block set up for wet sump, crank, cam, distributor and intake.

Are you wanting a new or used block? Which V-8 small block cylinder head are you wanting to use...GM, Ford or Mopar? What about cylinder bore? Standard is 4.000 inch but we can go to 4.125. What about crankshaft? Billet, lightweight nodular iron or a reworked cast OEM shaft? Stroke and journal size? A KRP block can accept a 4.000 inch stroke.

I know, I know...lots of questions but I've got lots of options too.

Regards,
Gerry Dedonis

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KSGerry

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted June 08, 2004 09:03 PM  
I'll take used everything. I don't need a billet crank. A good cast or the nodular iron crankshaft is fine. I would like something close to the 4 inch stroke but usually they are higher dollars$$$$. But if not that is what I would like. A good cam for the setup that was good to about 8500. I have valve train items. I assume chevy geometry is the same for your setup? I would use a gm head. I guess pistons matching the angle would be up to me. Something that I can use a 5.7 rod (small journal) The bore would be up in the air. I'm going to half to buy the pistons unless you have some good used stuff you'd let go cheap. I would like to build more than 12:1. I'm thinking in the 15 range if you think that's feasible. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I'm familiar with Ford 2.3 and V8 chevy's. I don't know squat about these chevy 4's. I really need help here.LOL What clutch? Balancer? do these engines use. Will they accept standard saginaw 3 speed tranny? I have a set of World Products 18 degree heads off of a 421 I had. Thanks so much for helping me on this. I'm really interested and ready to make something happen if we can figure this out. Thanks,

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted June 09, 2004 06:55 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by juliaferrell:
I'll take used everything. I don't need a billet crank. A good cast or the nodular iron crankshaft is fine. I would like something close to the 4 inch stroke but usually they are higher dollars$$$$. But if not that is what I would like. A good cam for the setup that was good to about 8500. I have valve train items. I assume chevy geometry is the same for your setup? I would use a gm head. I guess pistons matching the angle would be up to me. Something that I can use a 5.7 rod (small journal) The bore would be up in the air. I'm going to half to buy the pistons unless you have some good used stuff you'd let go cheap. I would like to build more than 12:1. I'm thinking in the 15 range if you think that's feasible. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I'm familiar with Ford 2.3 and V8 chevy's. I don't know squat about these chevy 4's. I really need help here.LOL What clutch? Balancer? do these engines use. Will they accept standard saginaw 3 speed tranny? I have a set of World Products 18 degree heads off of a 421 I had. Thanks so much for helping me on this. I'm really interested and ready to make something happen if we can figure this out. Thanks,

Essentially, a KRP engine can be thought of being half of a V-8 small block. A new, fully machined KRP block with main caps, high performance main studs and a leak-proof aluminum cover for the lifter bores sells for $2500.dollars. I've got three new blocks in inventory..a GM, a Ford and a Mopar.

The new KRP-GM block is drilled to accept an 18 to 23 degree V-8 head. However, there is a sleeve installed in number one cylinder as we found a sand pit during the machining processes. It is sleeved to 4 inches to match the other three cylinders. The price on this block is $2000.dollars.

As for used, I've got a KRP-Ford engine that was assembled for the ARCA Truck Series. Displacement is 158 cid with a 4 inch bore X a 3.100 stroke SCAT billet crankshaft ( 2.100 rod journals). The head is an aluminum Brodix Track 1 with T & D roller rockers, a Ford SVO valve cover fitted with an oil spray bar to cool the valve springs, a five-journal Ultradyne roller cam, Competition Components dry sump pan, SCP 3-stage external oil pump, a four-barrel aluminum intake manifold with a 390 cfm Holley carburetor reworked by VDL industries, forged JE pistons with .450 domes, 6 inch forged rods, plus all of the related hardware and sheet metal...Fluiddamper harmonic damper, Gilmer belt-drive for water pump and external oil pump, straight-cut high performance timing gears by Cloyes, MSD-Pontiac Superduty distributor, etc.

Fully rebuilt and dynoed, this engine will sell for $9000.dollars. A new, unassembled KRP engine with the same equipment sells for $13,000 dollars. I would part out this engine but prefer to sell it as a unit. Sold as-is without being rebuilt the price is $7000.dollars.

As for crankshafts, I've got one new SCAT billet 3.100 stroke for $2000.dollars, the used 3.100 listed above for $1400.dollars, new KRP lightweight nodular iron crankshafts...custom ground to your requirements for stroke, rod journals and crankshaft bolt flange pattern for $1200.dollars. Reworked OEM cast iron crankshafts from the GM 153 cid "Chevy II" (3.25 stroke) or the 181 cid GM "Marine" engines (3.600 stroke) for $800.dollars. These OEM cast crankshafts require the use of wide-base 1.029 x 2.100 GM inline connecting rods.

As for flywheel, pressure plate, clutch, etc. you can use small block GM components. We use a Quartermaster flywheel and Tilton clutch mated to a Tex racing transmission.

In addition to the parts above, I do have a few of the old Pontiac Superduty-4 components that would fit on an OEM 2.5 GM "R" style block. One new "437" casting aluminum Pontiac SD head, a used "431" head needing repairs to the combustion chambers, two new Edelbrock intake manifolds to fit those heads, new five-journal Pontiac Superduty cam shafts and a few other odds and ends.

Like I said...lots of options and different prices.

Regards,
Gerry Dedonis

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KSGerry

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted June 09, 2004 08:48 AM  
I'm pondering and researching. I'll get back to you in a few days.

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted June 09, 2004 09:28 AM  
Something else to consider....
A Kansas Racing Products block when built to accept Pontiac Superduty or GM components is assigned and has cast into it the Pontiac "Arrowhead" symbol and casting number, "10093306".

When built as a Ford, it has a Ford Oval and the part number: M-6010-B180.

The Mopar part number is pending but it is similar to their "A-4" OHV aluminum race engine.
See: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/la4.html

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KSGerry

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