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Author Topic:   Milling a 2.3 Ford head and valve timing
bbchs
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 32
posted May 15, 2002 08:22 PM  
I would like to know if anybody has milled a 2.3 ford head and tried to run the stock timing gear. Does the change in the valve timing make it inpossible to do this with out a after market adjustable timing gear. Our track states that all parts have to be stock. Technically I wouldn't be cheating if the stock gear will work.


Thanks for any help...Chuck

ford5
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 711
posted May 15, 2002 08:37 PM  
yes chuck, we did that before, just file a larger slot in the gear and drive a wedge in there to hold it in that direction, and tighten nut to hold it there.

wildcat4257
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted May 18, 2002 04:19 AM  
cut a new keyway in the stock pulley.put to tdc and hold pulley up to cam(preferably with die bluing on the pin) this will tell you where to cut new keyway. i would suggest letting a machine shop doing it. shouldn't cost much. the belt will have to be put into place, of course to line up pulley.
WILDCAT

[This message has been edited by wildcat4257 (edited May 18, 2002).]

yabba48
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 32
posted June 06, 2002 02:15 PM  
I run a stock pulley on top with about 150 thousands off the head I dont really have any trouble. If I were to put an after market pulley on would it give me more power?
I am running a hydralic 280a crane cam thanks.

KWTracer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 233
posted June 06, 2002 06:21 PM  
Yes, you need to degree the cam. And as best you can with your pulley advance it a little.

1195
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 10
posted June 13, 2002 05:54 PM  
We cut our head .100 and it retarded the cam 5 degrees at the crank. If you have to run a stock gear how about the ford motorsport gear? It is multi-indexed for 0,2,4,6,and 8 degrees. The ford part # is M-6256-A231

shadoza
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 123
posted May 11, 2003 02:01 AM  
.

------------------
im gonna be in front someday

MINI2.3DIRTRACER
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 115
posted May 12, 2003 10:32 AM  
HERE WE GO AGAIN. THIS IS GREAT I'M ALLWAY'S PICKING UP GREAT ADVICE HERE. CALL ME CRAZY- BUT I'VE DONE ALL MY "TIMING ADJUSTMENTS" BY TURNING MY DISTRUBUTER. KEEP IN MINE I'M A ROOKIE AT THIS STUFF LEARNING EVERY DAY, BUT CAN SOMEONE TELL ME THE ADVANTAGES OF THIS "CAM TIMING" I'VE SEEN THE ADJUSTABLE CAM TIMING SPROKETS @ RACER WALSH AND MY RULES ALLOW THEM, SO WHAT WILL GETTING ONE DO FOR ME? MY HEAD IS SHAVED ABOUT .145 I RUN THE 2.3 LONG ROD (5-7) BLOCK? RIGHT NOW I HAVE A STOCK CAM SPROCKET?? THX IN ADVANCE.

b4racing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 626
posted May 12, 2003 01:25 PM  
well you can change your rpm range for starters.

shadoza
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 123
posted May 12, 2003 02:42 PM  
By retarding your cam timing you get higher rpm power. advancing it, you get lower rpm power. This is a post from about a year ago that I added a "." to so the person that asked a question about milling a head and having to keep his stock gear can see how some kept stock gear and still retarded the timing. In my opinion an adjustable cam gear is almost a necessity for a racing application so you get the most out of your engine. But the question I am concerned about is, do you HAVE to retard the timing when you shave your head, no not like basic training mini2.3, i mean your engine head. Just kidding man. But seriously, opinions differ on this ALOT. In my opinion the belt tensioner will take care of any length adjustments between the crank gear and the cam gear, but others believe that you need to retard the timing more because of the decreased difference between the two. I still havent seen a FOR SURE answer to this question, not to doubt anyone's knowledge in here, but I would still like to hear it from a professional source. Maybe I should contact a Ford engineer, HA

MINI2.3DIRTRACER
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 115
posted May 12, 2003 03:49 PM  
THX GOOD INFO TO KNOW, I'M GOING TO BUY ME ONE or CAN I TAKE THE ONE I HAVE TO MY MACHINE SHOP AND HAVE IT MODIFIED TO DO THE SAME JOB? AS FOR YOUR POINT ABOUT YOU MUST RETARD (OR NOT) WHEN SHAVING YOUR HEAD TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE FOR THE BELT, I'LL HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU. WHEN I HAD MINE DONE I DID NOT CHANGE THE SPROCKET AND MY TENSIONER KEPT THE BELT TIGHT AND ALL WAS GOOD (BUT AS I LEARN HERE I GUESS IT CAN BE EVEN BETTER)
THX

MINI2.3DIRTRACER
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 115
posted May 22, 2003 10:37 AM  
"cut a new keyway in the stock pulley.put to tdc and hold pulley up to cam(preferably with die bluing on the pin) this will tell you where to cut new keyway"

I CUT THIS OUT OF A POST FROM ABOVE AND WAS WANTING TO DO A FOLLOW UP ON IT. I'M SITTING HERE TRYING TO FIGURE THE "HOW'S THAT WORK" ON THIS. IF I CUT A NEW KEY SLIDE IT ON BOLT IT DOWN PUT THE BELT ON AT TDC, I'M RIGHT BACK WHERE I STARTED??? THE TIMING PULLY IS STILL THE SAME SIZE, AND WILL SPIN THE EXACT SAME. CAN SOMEONE BREAK DOWN THE PYSICS ON THIS (IN SIMPLE TERMS PLZ) I'M A LIL SLOW ON THIS STUFF-- BUT WHEN IT HITS ME IT HITS ME LIKE A ROCK.
THX

shadoza
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 123
posted May 22, 2003 07:10 PM  
Im not 100% sure what your asking, but i think i know. With an adjustable cam gear, you can rotate the actual gears to advance or retard the camshaft. kind of like how you turn the distributor to advance the timing or retard it. so what that particular post is saying, figure out how much you want to adjust your cam timing, get a stock pully from a junkyard or a local parts store, mark it, and take it to a machine shop and have them cut it out. I am probably totally off so please get a second opinion before taking my advice.

shaggy12
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 13
posted May 31, 2003 09:19 PM  
URCH!!!! Back up the bus!!!!! Let's start from the begining. First of all, the "distance " between the gears does not determine whether or not to advance or retard the cam. The ONLY reason to advance/ retard the cam is too open and close the valves at a different time than the factory had designed it. As far as the tensioner goes, it's purpose is to take the slack out of the belt. Picture the 2.3 from the front side. The crank is turning clockwise. The right side of the belt ( the tension side) is going from the cam to the crank. The other side of the motor is all on the slack side of the belt. Therefore the tensioner does not retard or advance the cam. The ONLY way to "remark" the stock cam pulley will be to use a degree wheel, as mentioned above. ANY other method will be a shot in the dark and possibly a set of bent valves. When a head is shaved and the belt and pulleys are installed in the stock location, the cam will be RETARDED after adjusting the tensioner correctly. The problem is, without degreeing the cam, you won't know how much. Chad Ruwe Speed Pro Cylinder Heads 208-362-5040

MINI2.3DIRTRACER
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 115
posted June 02, 2003 02:34 PM  
SHAGGY12
DAM --YOU BROKE IT ON DOWN, NOW MY HEAD IS REALY SPINNING--BUT IF I READ YOU RIGHT I NEED TO GET ONE OF THESE ADJUSTING SPROCKTS (DESCRIBED BELOW - FROM RACER WALSH) AND USE IT TO ADJUST MY CAM TIMING vs TRYING TO CUT NEW KEY-WAYS ON MY STOCK SPROCKET. ALSO AS FOR THE TENSIONER-- I HAD MY HEAD SHAVED AND WENT BACK TO STOCK SET UP ARE YOU SAYING THAT RETARDED MY CAM TIMING?? IT TURNS OUT I'M GOING TO BUILD A WHOLE NEW HEAD ANYWAY--BUT THIS STUFF IS ALWAYS GOOD TO KNOW.
THX MUCH

CAM TIMING SPROCKETS:
This adjustable cam sprocket enables you to advance or retard the camshaft for performance and economy gains. The simple 3 bolt design allows cam timing adjustments in less than a minute. By advancing the camshaft (move center piece clockwise) low end power and torque is increased. Retarding the cam gives power higher in the rev range for top end performance on a long track. Even on a stock, unmodified engine the mileage and power can be improved.

shadoza
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 123
posted June 02, 2003 03:31 PM  
yeah dude, i would definately get an adjustable sprocket compared to cutting a stock cam

notn
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 26
posted June 04, 2003 02:19 PM  
Racer walsh has the ticket..indexed gear, about 40 bucks and put a larger washer on it and unless they take off the bolt it looks stock. Check it out at Racer Walsh on the web. can't remember the exact site add. is that shaved head STOCK..hmmmm. I won't tell no one ya got if you won't tell them I got one.
notn

MINI2.3DIRTRACER
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 115
posted June 04, 2003 03:18 PM  
OK HERE WE GO, TRIVIA TIME. OR SHOULD I SAY UN-CONFUSE MINI2.3 TIME. BELOW IS THE LINK TO WHERE THESE ADJUSTABLE SPROCKETS ARE, AND I THOUGHT I WAS GETTING THE CONCEPT HERE FOR A MINUTE UNTIL NOTN TALKED ABOUT USING THIS MULTI GEAR SPROCKET. NOW LOOKING AT THIS THING YOU WOULD PULL YOUR BOLT AND WASHER, SLIP YOUR BELT OFF, PULL THIS SPROCKET OFF, AND WHILE IT'S OFF TURN THE SPROCKET IN YOUR HAND 1 OR 2 (??) INDEX MARKS(OR KEY WAYS) CLOCKWISE (TO ADVANCE), THEN SLIDE THE SPROCKET BACK ON THE GEAR (SPLEEN), RE-BOLT IT DOWN, PUT BELT BACK ON. SO NOW WHAT I PICTURE IN MY MINE IS BY DOING THIS YOU CHANGED NOTHING, THE GEAR (OR SPLEEN) IS STILL RIGHT WHERE IT WAS FROM THE START. FROM HOW I'M SEEING IT, IT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE (TO ME) TO PULL THE BELT, TURN THE CAM SPROCKET (WHILE BOLTED DOWN), THEN PUT THE BELT BACK ON????
PLEASE A FEW OF YOU SMART GUYS ON THIS BREAK DOWN MY CONCEPTION (OR MIS-CONCEPTION) ON THIS.. I'D REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
THX MINI2.3 http://www.racerwalsh.com/2300_cylinder_head.htm www.racerwalsh.com/2300_cylinder_head.htm

shadoza
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 123
posted June 04, 2003 07:41 PM  
Got me man, maybe we need to wait until b4racing reads this to let us know. isnt this a great site? I have learned so much here. But i think you want to retard the cam timing not advance it. Advacing it would give you lower rpm power. If i am not mistaken.

notn
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 26
posted June 04, 2003 09:50 PM  
NOTN HERE.if you send me an email I will send a jpeg of the ford index cam instructions, maby it will make more sence. I am terrable at explaining things..sorry to make it more confusing
notn
neal@eoni.com

b4racing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 626
posted June 05, 2003 12:53 AM  
I have one of these and it is trickey to get but the way I explain it each slot has a different mark to line it up in the grand scheme of things it only moves it a little bit you are right if you have a degree wheel you can do it the way you are talking if the teeth wheel line up that is where I think the problem would come in again i am no expert but that is how my pea mind sees it. Hope this helps BObby

MINI2.3DIRTRACER
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 115
posted June 05, 2003 10:04 AM  
ok guy's thx much, but i think i'd like to see these instuction notn has--maybe that will get me straight. NOTN my e-mail is sdslaub@aol.com , let me know (with a reply here) when you send it-- so i can go check my mail,, i rarely go to this aol mail.
thx mini2.3

notn
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 26
posted June 05, 2003 01:03 PM  
ok, j-peg is on its way. kind of big but the orig print is not too good so got as high of resolution as I could. hope it helps.
notn

MINI2.3DIRTRACER
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 115
posted June 05, 2003 02:02 PM  
BINGO!!!!!!!!
THX MUCH NOTN, NOW I GET IT--PRETTY BAD YOU HAD TO BRAKE DOWN AND DRAW ME A PICTURE. SO BASICLLY THE STEPS I DESCRIBED ABOVE IS CORRECT EXCEPT NOW I SEE THERE IS COROSPONDING INDEX MARKS W/ EH KEY WAY (ADVACE & RETARD) THAT YOU ROTATE THE SPROKET TO PRIOR TO PUTING THE BELT BACK ON. (THIS CHANGES THE CAM TIMING) NOW I'M TRACKING
THX AGAIN.

MiPinto6
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 118
posted June 05, 2003 03:29 PM  
The Way I've always done it is to loosen the lockdown bolts and center bolt on the cam sprocket and then turn the CRANKSHAFT while the camshaft stays stationary. I have the adjustable from Racee Walsh.

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