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Author Topic:   Factory stock sbc heads question?
stevenm
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 43
posted November 02, 2005 03:39 PM  
Hello Racing guys.I plan to run a factory stock (cruiser class) 82 monte carlo metric ss next season and have a few questions.

Our rules say we must run open chamber heads with no guide plates and a max of 447 lift on the camshaft.Stock intake and quadrujet 4bl.

I have a set of 882`s 76 cc heads that came off from a 77 monte carlo 350 pn 3970014 2 bolt main .010% Nickle casting.

I also have a set of heads with the center bolt valve covers that came off from a 5.7 1987 surburban 2 bolt main block.

Which of the above heads would be best to 3 angle valve job with good springs and stainless race valves?

I plan on running a 3.25 forged crank with good rods and flat top pistons.Our rules dont allow domes.I want a 327 and plan on running a lot of gear on a 1/4 mile dirt oval.

I want to run a turbo 350 out of second gear with good gears in the rear to get my final drive right.Have had bad luck running out of low gear it seems the transmissions get to hot running in low.We cant run a locked rearend either.

Thanks for any info.

Steven.

Koolaid
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 82
posted November 02, 2005 07:59 PM  
Steven, if you're required to run the stock 7.5 rearend will you be ok with gearing as far as running 2nd? Last I knew the tallest ratio made was 4.56 - I have no idea how your track is setup so just wanted to bring that up in case you haven't thought about it. Maybe that's more then enough - I don't know.

Brezinski's website says the 441, 487, and 993 casting #'s are the best of the open chamber heads. If no one else pipes up and you're stuck with my limited advice I would pull a an intake and exhaust out of each and look at how the ports and bowls look compared to each other - one might be become a very obvious choice over the other? Good luck next season!

stevenm
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 43
posted November 02, 2005 08:46 PM  
Hello Koolaid.

I will have to run the 7.5 rearend stock unlocked differential.My gear ratio would be a 1.52 second gear with the turbo automatic x a 456 rearend gear = 693.12 final drive ratio.

I will be turning more rpm`s with the 327 than my usual 355`s bored 30 over with forged 2 valve relief flat tops.I want to run a steel 3.25 stk crank with 6" inch 3D H Beam rods and a Isky 450 lift rule hyd cam.

I really want to get the best heads for my buck on the open chamber heads.

Thanks for the input.

Steven.

[This message has been edited by stevenm (edited November 02, 2005).]

johder
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 100
posted November 03, 2005 03:52 PM  
if you have a lift rule, flat top rule, etc...you dont want a 76cc head on there. you will have like 9:1 compression...i had a choice between set of double humps and a set of cleaned up, valve job, the full works of a 416 casting 58cc head....10.5-11.1 compression...NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE. i'd find a set of old 305 high output heads and get them done up. you can find them in camaros, and monte ss from 80-85 years. anyhow that is my opinion... 882s if im not mistaken dont really work GREAT untill about 6-7k....atleast what i hear anyohw from some of the guys that run them at the track

johder
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 100
posted November 03, 2005 03:53 PM  
i forgot to answer your question...run the vortec centerbolt heads....if you have to chose between the two

t_train75
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 51
posted November 03, 2005 07:49 PM  
Flow wise I have heard the 882's are the best GM large chamber head. Just be carefull if you sneeze on them they could crack. Otherwise any X head would be great. The 487X is suppose to be a great large chamber head and I think it is a 461X is suppose to be a great smaller chamber head. That is just my thoughts. Good luck!

Ego Racing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 724
posted November 03, 2005 08:02 PM  
The Vortec head did not come out until 1995 on trucks and after that on cars. That is per GM. The ones before were more or less regular heads with a new valve cover. Unless you got lucky and got a set of HO heads from a 305. The 882's would more than likely be the best of the 2. Unless you could find someon who would trade for a set of better heads. Check this site for flow info. http://www.users.interport.net/s/r/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy

Eljojo
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 968
posted November 04, 2005 04:18 AM  
Honest injun...you are going to spend some $$ building the rod. Go ahead and find a set of the 441 467 or 993 castings. Have them worked as much as the rule book allows. Then spend some more $$ on a cam. You will never be sorry you did.
BTW---Read your rulebook closely if the rule is as you stated," a max of 447 lift on the camshaft" you are wide open on cams. With a stock rocker you would be over .680 on valve lift.

johder
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 100
posted November 04, 2005 04:21 AM  
also el...he can run a 1.6 ratio rocker and get another 30 thousands lift

johder
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 100
posted November 04, 2005 04:22 AM  
and also daddy has a set of the 305 heads...ported, polished, screw in studs, valve job, etc...all brand new and fresh...but IM USING THEM HEHEHEHE

stevenm
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 43
posted November 04, 2005 06:13 AM  
Do any of you guys know anything about the 601 castings 53cc chamber that came on 80`s 267/305 ss monte carlos?

Can the 1.94 valves be installed in them?

Thank you guys.

Steven.

beachracing
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 94
posted November 04, 2005 06:40 AM  
601's should take a 1.94, or a 2.02. You will gain more by going with 2.02 and especially with turning more rpm's. That is if rules allow. Blending the port behind the intake valve will help with flow. Port the heads with a port match, and try to get them open enough that they will breath. Air flow is the key to horsepower. Open the exhaust port up, and match to header-manifold gasket. If you can use headers, go with the 1 3/4 tube size unit. The 601 is a closed chamber head. I have a set of 487 heads bare, nothing has been done to them,..if your interested. They are a better flowing head than the 882, and less prone to cracking, etc. beachracing@gmail.com

[This message has been edited by beachracing (edited November 04, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by beachracing (edited November 04, 2005).]

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted November 04, 2005 12:55 PM  
882 are the worst heads you could think of putting on a race car. chambers to big. dont flow worth a ****. and crack. if you have any type of tpi head run it. they flow great, and have smaller cc's any 305 from 82-89.. they were 50 hp diff between a stock 993 head. that was on hot rods junk yard jewels.. and a local engine builder here in memphis built the exact same thing and came up with 347 hp. 361 tqe on a dished 355. for less than 500.00 but that was with a 268 x ennergy cam. which lift is 480 ish...

Speedway65
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 344
posted November 04, 2005 01:27 PM  
The only head we can run is the 882,s and so far for the last 3yrs we have had no problem with them.The only saving grace is that when we run these heads we can run Hoosier e mod tires instead of street tires.

James Ott
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 131
posted November 04, 2005 03:04 PM  
I've heard lots of people trash the 882's but man they are millions of them out there and they are not all cracked. They flow great for stock or near stock lift cams. So to begin with, it really depends on what you are running for a cam and carb and exhaust ect. To say they are the worst I would have to say that is wrong. You can't compare them to double humps if you can't use them!

[This message has been edited by James Ott (edited November 04, 2005).]

stevenm
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 43
posted November 04, 2005 04:09 PM  
Hey guys wonder how these heads would do?

CASTING NUMBER 14102193 SWIRL PORT INTAKE PORT DESIGN 65.3cc COMBUSTION CHAMBER.CENTER BOLT VALVE COVERS.1987 Surburban 5.7.

Thanks steven.

James Ott
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 131
posted November 04, 2005 04:40 PM  
not much

Ego Racing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 724
posted November 04, 2005 05:10 PM  
The 882's have a higher HP potential at .400 lift in stock form than most heads as people think are great. Check the web sit I posted above and check the flow numbers. I have never heard of a cracking problem in the 882's it might be if they were milled to death or angeled to get the chambers smaller.
I do know that there are some series getting away from the VORTEC heads because of the cracking problems they are having.

eenfield
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 116
posted November 06, 2005 07:53 AM  
IF you are going to stick to the rules, then why all the discussion about vortechs, tpi heads and 305 heads as they are not open chamber heads like what was mentioned in the first post.

If you are sticking to the rules then most any head will work (441,487,993,882 etc.) Some are better than others, but not by leaps and bounds.

If rules alow, spend your time and money on the bowls and ports and get some good flowing valves.

You did not state if you were limited to hydrualic or if you could use a mechanical cam. Call a cam manu and discuss your best choice for those heads and intake.

stevenm
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 43
posted November 06, 2005 08:45 AM  
447 max lift hyd cam 1.5 stock type rocer arms.

Thanks.

Steven.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted November 06, 2005 09:24 AM  
882's on a stock motor maybe.. on a race motor **** no!

by the rules any production head is legal. i have not been able to pull a head off of an engine yet and find the chambers closed..

James Ott
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 131
posted November 06, 2005 01:08 PM  
SC1 ever heard of "intent"? that means the intent of the rule. I think they were referring to open (big) chamber heads.

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted November 06, 2005 01:17 PM  
it doesnt matter what anyone thinks. we all think differant..lmao thats the great thing about rules like that. open chamber leaves alot open.. without a specific cc or casting numbers that rule is wide open.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted November 06, 2005 01:38 PM  
There is a common misconception about 882 heads. There was a lighter version of the 882 made, which was the worst of the 2. 882 are good heads, if you have the heavy, and much stronger casting. For the life of me, I can't remember how to indentify the stronger casting. The heavy 882 have been used by racers for years, and with pretty decent success. Like a earlier post said, cutting into the deck, and so forth is probably a good reason for the head failures. On a low compression rule class, these heads are fine.

Ego Racing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 724
posted November 06, 2005 04:53 PM  
The lighter the casting the more material that is removed for the bolt bosses on the outside of the head.
On the Heavy heads they are almost straight across. There's only two dimples into the head by the second bolt hole from each end. The light heads are cut out around the bolt bosses, with the spark plug located between the bolt holes on the bosses. It makes them look like the bosses and spark plug areas were added as an after thought.

stevenm
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 43
posted November 06, 2005 05:03 PM  
It seems the 193 65.3 cc center bolt valve cover heads would yeild more compression than the 882 76 cc early model heads?

They both have 1.94 Intake and 1.50 Exhaust valves.The Intake port behind the valve seat could be ported to flow better it seems also.

I was told compression is power and a guy I know ran the 193 heads in his chevy metric 2 door malibu factory stocker and that car would fly.

Thanks guys for the input.

Steven.

Thanks

James Ott
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 131
posted November 06, 2005 06:23 PM  
Apparently you have already made up your mind, so why bother to post?

stevenm
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 43
posted November 06, 2005 06:29 PM  
James I have not made my mind up and do like other opinions on the matter.We cannot run closed chamber heads and we have to run a 1.5 stock type rocker arms with a hyd 447 max lift measured at the valve tip and the cam must pull 16 on the vacum at 800 rpm`s.

I still have not heard if the 193 heads are closed or open chamber?

Thanks steven.

bbracer17
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 278
posted November 06, 2005 07:53 PM  
I wouldn't worry as much as you are about maximum horsepower. Find a good head that that you can bolt on that is leagal and figure out how to plant that one tire that has the power to it. You did say an unlocked rear end didn't you?

stevenm
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 43
posted November 06, 2005 08:00 PM  
Yes we cannot lock the rearend but do believe some are running detroit lockers in the class where we run.

We are not to stroke or destroke our engines nor balance the rotating assembly but I assure you some are winding the rpm`s and they would not stay together unless balanced.

We also have a $525.00 claim rule on the engines that some top runners have refused.

Thanks.

Steven.

beachracing
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 94
posted November 06, 2005 09:50 PM  
If you have no compression rule, deck the block to increase the comp. ratio. You need to have at minimum 35 thousands clearance. Example= .026 gm (shim)head gasket x .010 deck= 36 thousands quench. The tighter the quench the better, but I would recommend 35, and no less even with h-beams. I built a .060 over 327 with massively modified 450 castings heads that flow close to 185cc on the runners, and this motor helped me win a main event last year, not to add a great motor for a slick, black track. Bore the living **** out of it to squeeze as much cubes as possible. I would not go beyond 11.5:1 with stock heads, but I'm sure some have had success with more. Hypers, or forged pistons, with a 6.0 rod is fine. That balance **** is stupid, but piston wise go with some speed pro's which are within a gram. The set I have in my 355 are perfectly matched, right out of the box. H-beams(eagle)are a very good h-beam, but save money and get a set of 6.0 eagle sir i-beam rods. balancing is a must, and is well worth it. Use a good reputable balancer, don't use a spud(stock w/o the outer ring. Turning more than say 7,000 rpm's on a 1/4 is a waste, so watch the gearing.

[This message has been edited by beachracing (edited November 06, 2005).]

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