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Author Topic:   0 decking block
tlkdlw
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 42
posted October 13, 2005 09:00 PM  
We have sbc .060 over with flat top malhe pistons,461 heads angle milled .100 the block is a wheeler preped block. motor ran strong all year. the pistons are .020 in the hole. what I need to know is is it worth the money
haveing it 0 Decked when we freshen it and about how much horse power are we leaving behind know. Thanks for some input in advance Terry

tlkdlw
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 42
posted October 14, 2005 10:39 PM  
somboby have some input or ideas, it would be a big help. thanks Terry

Eljojo
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 968
posted October 15, 2005 04:18 AM  
Sounds like Wheeler's work.
Big name----I have a set of their heads I shipped back and had them re-work...then had my machinist re set the installed height on the valve springs....one shop I'd refer my competition to.

Leaf
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 15, 2005 06:30 AM  
To me .020 in the hole is fine, I would run .025-.030 head gaskets with that and call it good.

I zero decked 3 motors I built at once and at rpm with stock rods, crank etc they flexed enough that I needed .050 head gaskets to keep the pistons of the bottom of the head. So now I just deck and buy the correct gaskets to get .050..

You can get copper re useables from summit or comp products in any thickness, thats what I do when a cheaper stock type isnt going to work.

tlkdlw
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 42
posted October 16, 2005 09:38 PM  
Thanks for the replys. Any more ideas out there?

Terry

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted October 17, 2005 09:40 AM  
To me .020 in the hole is fine, I would run .025-.030 head gaskets with that and call it good.
I zero decked 3 motors I built at once and at rpm with stock rods, crank etc they flexed enough that I needed .050 head gaskets to keep the pistons of the bottom of the head. So now I just deck and buy the correct gaskets to get .050..

You can get copper re useables from summit or comp products in any thickness, thats what I do when a cheaper stock type isnt going to work.

This is a total farce statement. If you are seeing that much flex out of your parts, you've got bigger problems (I.E. Bore way to loose). You'll never see a Stock bottom end flex that much, let alone a quality forged bottom end.

At that, you should never see a Scat 9000 and a set of Eagle SIR I beams flex that much.

0 Deck the thing, watch your piston to valve clearance and you'll be fine. No Reason to kill the quench because someone that runs hand down junk has his cylinder wall clearance way to large, or even other problems (He is known to have bigger problems yet).

Leaf
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 17, 2005 05:29 PM  
xtreme are you forgetting that we all read all your posts on here while you tried to re assemble your first motor last winter?? they were quite funny. And all your posts about it blowing up and the next one you assembled that you thought was hard to turn over and took all apart supposedly to find dirty bearings or something so you supposedly started all over with that one??

the cranks I was flexing was a 3.48 cast scat , and a oem cast crank. stock rods, speed pro 617 pistons which are quite heavy, long before xtreme expert above could even drive.

xtreme expert hasnt ever built a zero deck motor.

when will you get tired of posting after every post I make??

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted October 17, 2005 06:15 PM  
If I remember right, I didn't blow any motors this year. If you can find where I posted that I did, I'll pay you $100 bux and give you all the Stock Rods you can handle.


And all your posts about it blowing up and the next one you assembled that you thought was hard to turn over and took all apart supposedly to find dirty bearings or something so you supposedly started all over with that one??
As far as the motor that had dirty bearings, I didn't get enough assembly lube on the bearings. I was smart enough to know something was wrong after I pulled the first main after spinning the crank a few times. We fixed the problem and I ran the motor about 25 nights at 7000 and never had a problem with it outside of breaking rocker arm studs. The bearings still look new to this day. I won a few races with it, won quite a few heats, and Ryan even won a heat and had a couple mains in the bag with the car and motor. Good year, how did you fare this year Jeff? We're upgrading to Forged Pistons for next year though.


the cranks I was flexing was a 3.48 cast scat , and a oem cast crank. stock rods, speed pro 617 pistons which are quite heavy, long before xtreme expert above could even drive.

There lies your motor problem Jeff. If you'd simply upgrade to a little better crank (The OEM Will do though), and a better set of Rods, you'd never have an engine problem. Those pistons are heavy, your right, but for the money you could invest in a good set of KB Hypers and not have the trouble.

xtreme expert hasnt ever built a zero deck motor.

Come on down to M'town, and we'll throw that rotating assembly that I built this year back together and we'll measure the deck height for ya. Heck, I'll even teach you how to read a Dial Indicator.


So are you going to build that chevelle your other username "MalibuMan" has been talking about? They seem to do ok, but I'd prefer a name brand metric. I ordered a new car for next year, It'll be here next Monday.


Good Luck Jeff, glad to see you still know it all.

Edited for Spelling

[This message has been edited by Xtreme12x (edited October 17, 2005).]

Leaf
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 17, 2005 06:56 PM  
I havent used a 3.48 stroke crank since 99. And they held up just fine with more than .032 clearance, as stated above back then I went to .050 and they never hit the heads again.

Im building a metric there will be pics on my website as I go at it, since your a stalker just keep on looking and youll see them.

86 monte carlo

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1876
posted October 18, 2005 05:55 AM  
My engine guy told me you can have alot of clearence way down in hole, and it will run just lower comp. you can get it 0 up and it will have comp and run. or there is a region in the middle and you hit it and.... runs but seem to have a large amount of problems with flame travel. He has motors that have won in more than a few series so i take his word.
I have not decked a block before this one, its decked to like 9.010 because that is the true 0 deck for this set up(with the piston rod crank combo).

[This message has been edited by zeroracing (edited October 18, 2005).]

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted October 18, 2005 07:19 AM  
What is the size of the dome on those pistons?

Zero, they will run fine however you deck them, but if you kill your quench area by stuffing a huge head gasket in there, you take 2 steps backward for the one step forward for the 0 decking.


As for this statement :since your a stalker just keep on looking and youll see them.

I don't stalk you Jeff, I just find it funny you have this wealth of knowledge but you yourself can't produce any results. When you sit here all winter and brag brag brag and then blow up, wreck, have excuses every week, why would someone want to take your advice? Just asking, because from what I, and the rest of the field at Marshalltown saw, you need to go back to the drawing board and re-think some of your racing. Trying to Flat-Foot a dirt track isn't how you drive bud.


Like I said, what's the dome on those pistons, and what heads were you running? Sounds like the heads might have been shaved quite a bit also.

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1876
posted October 18, 2005 09:11 AM  
it is a flat top motor with i think -5cc taken out for the vavles.
everything is custom from top to bottom almost on this. Like the pistons are rodguided, also the rods are 6.350 long.
the heads have not been shaved at all, pro topline 64cc. The pistons were custom made from wiesco to use a dart block with a 0 deck set at 9.010 instead of 9.000. By the time i got that long of rod in the motor then i had to go with the little more deck on it to fit a piston in it.

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted October 18, 2005 09:14 AM  
i may be wrong but isnt 035 the desired clearance? my engine cam to 040 with out gasket torqued. builder sai 002-005 will be taking up when torqued.

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted October 18, 2005 09:15 AM  
I'm not talking to you ya dork!!! LOL I'm talking to know it all up there.

You run much at all this year? I saw your sellin your car, you order a new BMS or what?

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1876
posted October 18, 2005 10:39 AM  
I am hoping to get a new car. Its not a bms.

leapinlizard
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 402
posted October 18, 2005 02:13 PM  
"Quench" the act of creating turbulance by pushing the the charge toward the spark plug to gain efficency. It also has the role of creating tubulance that will re homginize the mixtures for a increase in power and lessons the tendency to preignite under load. Can also be a tuning tool for compression and rod lenght as stated above.

.035 is a min. on most stock parts due to flexing and stretching. "Good", I.E. $$$$, part's can get way with as little as .010.

Leaf
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 18, 2005 04:04 PM  
watch out leapin lizard your calling xtreme wrong, **** start putting childish irrelevant posts behind anything you post any where and if he gets your email address youll have to block him.

I think hes only 13 so I wouldnt worry about him ever finding you and harming you though.. He supposedly stood next to me at a track but was too scared to even say hi, all his trash talk is internet only!!! like other children on mommys computer.

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted October 18, 2005 06:12 PM  
LOL. The goofy bird man Jethro Joldersma. It's too bad you won't even race the car you sell on JnJ Fab.com.

Your just mad that a 19 year old was able to run top 5 consistently building his own motors and setting his car up himself. Duh.

Good luck next year Jeff, if your new car runs like your old one, it should be real fast (to the back)

speedy46
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 165
posted October 18, 2005 06:46 PM  
if u are rebuilding it why don't u just make everyone happy and take it to .010 my own personal motor is .020 in the hole with a 72cc head, and a 1044 fel-pro head gasket and it is exactly 9.0-1. i figured it up at work one day and the .020 will give you .2 or 3 more compression witch i think would add 5 horse if u are lucky, personally if i was doing the machine work i wouldn't mess with it

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted October 18, 2005 06:59 PM  
who are you calling a dork?

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted October 18, 2005 07:24 PM  
zeroracing... he thought i was asking about his motor. Not you.

t_train75
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 51
posted October 18, 2005 07:35 PM  
I would just like to add a word of caution to everyone that has a 0 deck rule. Find out exactly what that means from your tech. man. i have a friend that is a machineist and builds his own motors (naturally). Well he works at about the only race motor shop for a while and was decking his block when the tech man was there and he reminded him too account for everything because 0 deck is checked when the head is pulled no cleaning no pushing nothing. So he leaves his 5 thous. in the hole to account for all of that. Remember carbon build up and the little bit of bearing wear. Just my 2 cents.


Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted October 18, 2005 08:25 PM  
Thanks for bringing that up Train.

On the kart motors we ran, the legal limit in IKF for pop up was .015. I would always deck the block and put the piston at .010 because with alky you wouldn't see a lot of carbon build up. On the Gas motors for the Adult Sportsman that ran on gas, I'd go .005-.006.

The rules in my class call for 9-1 Compression. When I built my 6" rod motor, I made sure I was right at 8.8-1. I was pumped at the end of the year and hit 9.0-1 exactly. Always leave room for errors.

tlkdlw
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 42
posted October 18, 2005 11:48 PM  
Thanks for all the replys.
Are rules say piston can not come past block on any cly. .005 in to be safe makes sense.

I didnt mean too start a disagrement between
any one. Thanks Terry

Larry Seals
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 24
posted October 23, 2005 09:26 AM  
As a poor boy,i have always zero decked my motors and run stock rods and crank,hypertetic pistons and got 2 years out of every one of them.They started smoking,was time to rebuild.StreetStock class,i also angle milled the heck out of heads(cheating or not).Zero is coooool

outlawstock17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1363
posted October 23, 2005 04:14 PM  
agreed, zero is best. i have even run stock ford stuff as much as .010" out of the hole...

fast_crew
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 99
posted October 24, 2005 04:10 PM  
Were running a .060 over sbc with domes (SRP) on 6.0in rods. Piston is .006 out of the hole, w/.041 gskts at 13-1 comp. Turning 7100 rpms. Never had any trouble or contact. On second rebuild, still no signs of contact.

Josh K.

MrHP1
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 4
posted October 25, 2005 07:33 AM  
Most of our engines are built .005 out of the hole. If your rules call for zero deck you might want to put it .005 in the hole to allow for carbon. You "NEVER" want to put your piston .010, .020, .025 down in the bore. This promotes detanation and screws up flame travel. If your zero deck with standard .039 Felpro head gaskets, and your hitting the head, you've got other problems (loose bore, wrong rod clearance, improper oil pressure, cavitation). Whether you have good stock rods (pink) or aftermarket (eagle, scat, etc.) stretch is "NOT" the problem.

------------------

YAZ
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 147
posted October 30, 2005 07:58 PM  
I read in one of the racing mags.
to 0 deck block and use the thinist
gasket.
the thinist gasket I found is .015"
will that work?

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