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Author Topic:   FORD BLOCK ??????
Dirt-Tracker
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 182
posted July 20, 2005 09:08 PM  
Guys Im running Ford 347 engines, this year I have busted 2 blocks already. They are busting by the motor mounts then taking out the main webbings and you can guess what happens next. I have never had this problem before. THey are stock 302 blocks. Ive been told that the car may be flexing and breaking them......also been told to make mounts of the front of the heads and come down and weld on chassis to make engine solid with chassis. Seems reasonable...has anyone tried this or have any other suggestions. Before you bring up the idea of SVO racing blocks.....aint happening this is a IMCA claimer engine and only allows stock blocks!! THanks

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ford5
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 711
posted July 21, 2005 06:28 AM  
Go to Ford and order a threaded freeze plug set (6) and get a 1 1\4 pipethread tap and rethread the frost plug holes, put thread sealant on the plugs and tighten them good and tight until they are nearly flush.
Get yourself a steel main girdle for around 80-100 bucks off e-bay. Seems to be working for me. I got 13 to 1 347 alky mod engine that turns 8000 nightly. Its a proven winner and seems to be holding together so far.
ford5....... try and not go over .030 on bore either

ispin
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 48
posted July 21, 2005 06:28 AM  
What year blocks are you using? If they are after year 79 they are junk anyway. If you can find a marine block out of a boat they are the best. They are to have alot of nickel in them, Very strong! Running a stroker in this be sure to have a good balance job on it or it will rattle its guts out depending on how hard you turn it.

302JJ
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted July 21, 2005 06:35 AM  
make sure you are using blocks after 1987, all these blocks are roller blocks, and are stronger in the webs than the prev. years or use the blocks from 1967 -69 these have a higher nickel content.

Dirt-Tracker
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 182
posted July 21, 2005 04:23 PM  
Well interesting......Ford5 what year of blocks you running? One guy says use nothing after 79 and another says make sure to use blocks after 87. Now Im confused. I do however like the idea of the main girdle. Does the pipe tap just make that area stronger?

Thanks guys. Hasnt anybody used the front head mounts. The ones I have seen look about like the back motor plate but cut in half and mounted to heads. Then weld 1/4 steel up off the chassis and bolt plate off of heads to the welded steel piece on chassis.

ford5
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 711
posted July 21, 2005 04:53 PM  
I've ran every year block ever produced, my opinion is, that there are good and bad castings in all years, but I think the newer 87 up blocks are better, plus you don't need to drill the top steam holes in the newer blocks and they are easier to come by and not worn out so bad, and clean up at .030 easier. the threaded frost plug deal is really the ticket for added strength, just check out a Boss 302 block sometime.
ford5

Dirt-Tracker
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 182
posted July 21, 2005 07:58 PM  
Is anyone running the 393 or 396 combo? I heard that the Windsor blocks are weaker yet.
I have that "Building Ford small block power" book and it says that the 75-87 Windsor engines in F series or E series vans have the superior heay duty rods that could be re-used with a different crank and pistons. Any one try this? Remember Im running IMCA rules and claimers!!!

modfan
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted July 21, 2005 09:58 PM  
I've been running the 396 combo for two years now and really like it. It makes a ton of torque. I run less gear then everyone else and still pull most of the cars off the corner. If you run one make sure it's balanced good. Otherwise it wasn't to bad money wise.

ford5
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 711
posted July 22, 2005 05:58 AM  
Windsor blocks are stronger then 302 blocks, any year windsor block will work ok...the 69 blocks are of a shorter deck height.

ispin
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 48
posted July 22, 2005 06:32 AM  
I have a 74 van block and it cracked by the #2 main. So I guess I dont even know what block to use. It would loose oil press when it got hot. I see that everyone has their opinion on what blocks to use. I agree that the roller blocks are the better blocks in the 302. I am running a 408 and it has lost of torque as well, all the chevy guys stand around and scratch their heads when they see that ford comming around them even on the high side.

[This message has been edited by ispin (edited July 22, 2005).]

mike9
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 72
posted July 22, 2005 07:44 AM  
I have run the mounts off the heads in a stock car and it worked very well even in a crash it didnt hurt the engine just sheared a bolt , you can bolt them to the three holes on the front of the head and have another bracket on the chassis to bolt to . i also built a front motor plate out of 1/8 inch steel plate i ran it across the front behind the timing cover , be sure and mill the timing cover down 125 thousands so the water pump pullys end up in the same place i ran a piece of 1/8 by 1/2 strap around the edge of this plate to give it strength where it bolted to the chassis i had vertical tubes that we ran a half inch bolt through on the frame at this point i took a half inch nut welded to a thick washer , like a fender washer , cut a hole in the frame put the nut in the hole and weld it in this makes an extremely strong and rigid mount , i also made a rear plate the same way , hope this was clear enough to understand lol

hotrodenford
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 60
posted July 22, 2005 10:21 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by ford5:
Windsor blocks are stronger then 302 blocks, any year windsor block will work ok...the 69 blocks are of a shorter deck height.

??
What are you smoking...I want some!!
??
302's are windsor's!! unless you talking about a BOSS 302. Why is '69 different? mine's the same as all the rest!!

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If it has wheels or a skirt, you can't afford it! But they shure are fun...

Dirt-Tracker
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 182
posted July 22, 2005 04:19 PM  
If the blocks are the same, why do I need different oil pan, different oil pump, different intake? Not trying to stir it, just curious. I always just thought the 351 was Windsors and 302's were 302's

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted July 22, 2005 06:25 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Dirt-Tracker:
If the blocks are the same, why do I need different oil pan, different oil pump, different intake? Not trying to stir it, just curious. I always just thought the 351 was Windsors and 302's were 302's

A 302 is a windsor. However, since ford only made 1 302, it is just refered to as a 302 instead of calling it a 302 Windsor. Since ford made 2 differant types of 351's, the Windsor and the Cleveland, when refering to a 351 you always specify which 351 you are talking about. The Windsor or the Cleveland. The 302 and 351Windsor are basically the same block. The 302 was made first. When they made the 351W, they took the 302 block and gave it a higher deck height so it could have a longer stroke. Since the deck height is higher, it takes a wider intake than the 302. Since it has a longer stroke, they made the crank bigger so it would have more balancing weight. Since the crank is bigger, had to change the bottom of the block just a bit to accomidate the larger crank. This is why you have to use a differant oil pan.

The best blocks to use are 74 and older or 85 and newer. 75-84 nickel content was lowered which makes the blocks weaker. The 69-74 years had a deck height of 9.480. In 74 they raised the deck height to 9.503 to help lower compression.

Better still, if you can find one, buy a Mexican Windsor block. They have even more nickel which makes them even stronger than the American blocks. They also have wider main bearings.

ford5
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 711
posted July 23, 2005 06:20 AM  
hotrodenford....

ok I'll admit...I don't know anything about Ford
you are the resident expert here, that is for sure, I'm done talking here.

mike9
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 72
posted July 23, 2005 07:55 AM  
J3 is exactly correct

Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 170
posted July 24, 2005 08:14 AM  
Ok first off --Ford5 don't back out here on us. We need and look for all opinions given on this forum. It is a great place to find out info on almost any racing matter. Everyone has there opinion and we appreciate and respect yours and everyone elses on here. We just have to put all the opinions together sort them out and go with our best judgement.

Remember we are all ford guys here trying to get and stay in front of those Chevey's--lol

Now -- We aquired a 351 block. It has a casting # on it . It is D4AE-6015-AA-12
7E12

How do we go about finding out it this is a good block to use or not. I believe the guy said it come out of a van.

Ford5 I am Dirt-trackers father in case you don't remember me. We visited last year about some things.

Wheels47


J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted July 24, 2005 09:09 AM  
quote:

Now -- We aquired a 351 block. It has a casting # on it . It is D4AE-6015-AA-12
7E12
[/B]

Ok, The "D" means is it a 70's model. The "4" is the year in that decade. The "A" means it was a Ford. The "E" means it is an engine part. The next four digits, "6015" tells us that it is the block part of the engine.

Now the rest that you have isn't listed in my book so I can't tell ya what they mean. Hope this helps.

Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 170
posted July 24, 2005 08:20 PM  
Thanks that gives me the info I need. I appreciate your time.

Wheels

Dirt-Tracker
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 182
posted July 24, 2005 08:28 PM  
So by the info above Im assuming this would be an acceptable block?

ispin
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 48
posted July 25, 2005 06:27 AM  
Just got my motor apart for a reason I wont mention, while it was apart I said lets check the bearings real quick. All looked ok until I tapped the #2 main cap to loosen it and it came off in two pieces!!!!! I was having a oil pressure drop off at high temps, this must have been it. My block is the same d4ae out of a van so I guess my first listing of what blocks to use might be wrong. However I did notice that ford motorsport makes nodular iron main cap for the windsor I am going to research them and will post any findings.

hotrodenford
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 60
posted July 25, 2005 03:15 PM  
ford5

sorry...diden't mean to intrude on your wisdom or step on you toes.
i'm not here to prove people wrong. jet get info to felow racers that i beleave to be correct. i am human just like everyone else and the engineers at FORD!

take a vacation, sit back, and relax every once in a while! lifes too short to blow a headgasket because of something i wrote in the forum.

if i am wrong i will admit it. but whatever you do don't ask me a chevy question or i will give you a ford answer!!

later

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If it has wheels or a skirt, you can't afford it! But they shure are fun...

351c rules
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted August 01, 2005 06:34 PM  
lol. sounds like alot of chevy people trying to spead there wisdom on ford stuff. 302 blocks are weak no matter what year. 351w are strong, the early ones had a shorter deck height 9.480 after 74-76 they had a 9.5 deck height. all motor mounts and bellhousing fit between the smallblocks.cleavlands will make more power useing stock parts than any other including chevys but they are heavy and rare.

[This message has been edited by 351c rules (edited August 02, 2005).]

mo6racing
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22
posted August 03, 2005 03:11 AM  
I think 1969 was the only year for the shorter deck.

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted August 03, 2005 12:17 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by mo6racing:
I think 1969 was the only year for the shorter deck.

No, 69-74 had the short deck. Then in 74 they changed. So, some 74 have short deck and some have taller deck. Read the my post above.

ispin
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 48
posted August 03, 2005 01:59 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by 351c rules:
lol. sounds like alot of chevy people trying to spead there wisdom on ford stuff. 302 blocks are weak no matter what year. 351w are strong, the early ones had a shorter deck height 9.480 after 74-76 they had a 9.5 deck height. all motor mounts and bellhousing fit between the smallblocks.cleavlands will make more power useing stock parts than any other including chevys but they are heavy and rare.

[This message has been edited by 351c rules (edited August 02, 2005).]


The way to tell if the windsor block is a good one or not is to feel where the main web comes in contact with the outside of the block, if there is a sharp edge or a 90 deg angle then it is junk for big power, if there is a smooth radius of extra metal at the same point then it it the strongest of the factory blocks for windsor but not bullet proof jut see my post above!

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