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Author Topic:   Wont Start...
MetricMonte
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted February 20, 2005 11:37 AM  
My car wont start back after the first time, it doesnt even have to get HOT really. I can start it and let it run about 5 or 10 minutes and it wont start back even after that short amount of time. I have heard people turning the starter then flipping the ignition switch but that doesnt work either. Sometimes they send the cars out on the track then have them shut them off for the pre race stuff and then start them back, but I figure mine wouldnt start back. Its a 350, 12:1 comp, timing at 34-36. Any ideas??
THANKS

[This message has been edited by MetricMonte (edited February 20, 2005).]

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted February 20, 2005 11:51 AM  
are you giving it any gas??? have you tried to just crank it with no gas? sounds like timing might not be correct

MetricMonte
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted February 20, 2005 12:18 PM  
Yup, I have tried not giving gas, and then giving gas etc...still nothing. Just doesnt act like it wants to start even, sounds worse when I am trying to start it back than it does when I first start it...

nailngoracing
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 170
posted February 20, 2005 01:08 PM  
does it smell gasy....when you kill it with the breather off does it puff vapors???

pit_boss
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 80
posted February 20, 2005 02:45 PM  
Could be a fuel delivery problem, I'd check fuel pressure on cold start and after your warm up.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted February 20, 2005 04:24 PM  
Not sure if this is related or not but my oil smells like racing fuel, not sure how long after a change it takes to have the race fuel smell but I would assume its not long. BTW this is a new engine and has never been raced before.
THANKS

Xtreme12x
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 874
posted February 20, 2005 05:59 PM  
You've got the same problem racer17j had. You'll have to rebuild the carb and check it all over. Its getting too much fuel when you kill the motor.

MetricMonte
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted February 20, 2005 06:13 PM  
The carb was new, or rebuilt I should say when I got it. I just took it out of the box and bolted it to the intake, was there something else I should have done??? Sorry if that sounds stupid, this is my first race car, just would like to get this stuff worked out.
THANKS

kcsparky
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 9
posted February 20, 2005 06:18 PM  
Check your fuel pressure. We had a bone stock fuel pump that was pumping 12-15 pounds of fuel pressure. It was building up so much pressure that when we shut the car off, it was still pushing fuel right on past the needle and seat. We finally gave up and put a fuel pressure regualator and a pressure gauge, and haven't had the problem since.

pit_boss
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 80
posted February 20, 2005 11:33 PM  
MetricMonte give us some more info on your carb,make, and cfm.

MetricMonte
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted February 21, 2005 05:33 AM  
Its a stock Rochester 2bbl (17057190) I bought from Autozone, I think it is remanufactured by Champion??

racerman707
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 374
posted February 21, 2005 08:54 AM  
I got a reman from Advance to go on my Ranger and it just would NOT run. I rebuilt it and found the air bleeds had been drilled out. Champion was the rebuilder on this one too. Take it back or get someone that knows what they're doing to fix it.BTW I had to change both air bleeds, both main jets(bored too), and the power valve to get this one right. I'd been better off digging one out of the ground to fix! Good luck.

63sportsman
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 11
posted February 21, 2005 02:31 PM  
maybe a place to look would be the distributor. Are you running HEI? Had a ignition module go bad and it would act alot like you were describing. Had a extremly hard time to get it to start, but once it was started would run ok, just down on power, changed out the module and it was fixed. I always figured they were either good or bad, but this one must of had a slight short in it somewhere. hope this helps

MetricMonte
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted February 21, 2005 03:42 PM  
What happens within the 10 or 15 minutes it sets after it has been ran to enable it to start again??? BTW its a new distributor, pretty much new or remanufacutered everything.

Istock66
unregistered Total posts: 111
posted February 21, 2005 04:27 PM           send a private message to MetricMonte   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
the excess fuel evaporates so it will start again.


nailngoracing
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 170
posted February 21, 2005 04:40 PM  
does the engine knock yet?

MetricMonte
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted February 21, 2005 04:42 PM  
No knock, dont know how I could hear it if it did lol. Does this have any relation to my oil smelling like race fuel?

Whitelightning
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 429
posted February 21, 2005 08:30 PM  
maybe diaprham in fuel pump is bad, that would make your oil smell like gas sause it would be dumping it in there. not sur eif it will cause the other probems.

pit_boss
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 80
posted February 21, 2005 09:39 PM  
You havn't said how it runs when on the track, power seems ok ? With the Rochester carb. being as simple as they are, It shouldnt take much to find the problem if it's in there, do the suirters work ok ?just wondering about the power booster. like the other post's stated, the excess fuel is either evaporating or the diaphram in the fuel pump is faulty, letting fuel into the motor, instead of coming out the weap hole. and at the same time lowering your fuel pressure,when warmed up. a cold pump(stock) will work this this way and the diaphram will weaken as it warms up.

iowatoolman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted February 22, 2005 01:21 AM  
i had a gm carb and the fuel would drip out of the venturies i noticed it because no matter how much i changed the idle mixture screws it was still rich at idle the problem was the float was set to high...has KP got into this one you might want to ask his advise

drive hard or drive home

MetricMonte
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted February 22, 2005 05:39 AM  
I've never had it on the track, never had it out of my driveway actually...

KPLugnut
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1019
posted February 22, 2005 06:46 AM  
Sounds like the carb is seriously messed up. Those oem-like mass-produced reman jobs can sit for months or even years on the parts store shelves before ever being sold and who knows what condition or quality the internal parts are in. My recommendation (since you mentioned your oil is fuel-filled) is to rebuild that carb again, or have it worked by a rebuilder to match your engine's needs.

KP

sideways
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 715
posted February 23, 2005 06:00 AM  
My suggestion.SEND IT TO KP.Hopefulley he has time to work you in.Dont blow that engine over a cheap Champion rebuilt deal.

locorace27
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 14
posted February 24, 2005 01:25 AM  
You have got a ton of good carb advice , however if your car won't start , and we all know that a splash of gas down the manifold will fire up an engine with no carb at all for a moment or two, well.

Almost for sure you have an ignition problem.
It starts initially then won't restart -

HEI module fails when powered up.
HEI fails due to voltage drop ..-12
HEI mech. advance sticks once fired up. (rusty springs or weights)

Solution - Replace complete dist.

If you replace your HEI, even with another used one , and be sure the battery is fully charged, more than likely your problem will be solved.

As for timing , I have seen several entry level stock car motors which wouldn't run well, even though the timing was correct.

Turns out that the outer ring on the balancer can slip or be damaged quite easily.
Hence, timing is wrong.

Speedracer92
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 70
posted February 24, 2005 07:17 AM  
Metric, I have had the exact same thing happen and I agree with the guys on here talking about the carb dripping gas in and fouling the plugs. I think that would explain a little fuel running down into the oil too. I have to run a rochester too and a couple of years ago I had a carb that if the motor was even close to warm and I shut it off, I could take the air cleaner off and just watch the gas drip in. The warmer the engine was, the more it would drip in. The car would flood itself just sitting there and it took forever to get it going again. You probably aren't running a return line from your fuel pump so I think you have a fair amount of pressure in the fuel line from the pump to the carb. Any little bit of heat will make that pressure even higher when it sits after you shut it off. My problem was my float needle and seat was letting the fuel sneak by when the pressure in the line built up and basically filled up the float bowl and started running out. I'm not a carb expert but I could tell something was wrong. Anyway, a simple rebuild fixed it. Send it to KP if you want a good one!

BrianW
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 385
posted February 24, 2005 09:05 PM  
to test the flooding theory simply plant the foot to the floor and hold it there while cranking - that will clear the engine of any old fuel and not be able to pull new fuel in - if it's flooded it'll stumble and start.

Also - since you said "this is a new car" are you sure you've got a good ground? From the battery to the a spot on the frame that's been ground clean with a 2 ga cable (or better) and then from the frame to the engine up front (again clean both ends and run a 2Ga cable) - most stock guys are running rubber or poly mounts that insulate the engine pretty well and cause slow crank, hard hot-start (low voltage), etc.

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