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Author Topic:   400 small block
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 268
posted September 27, 2004 09:05 PM  
I agree. I dont have the experiance most of you do. I dont think i have gotten all I can out of my car but the engine is something I think will help. I'm talking about the same basic set up in the parts depot but the extra torque will help me a little( from a 355 to a very mild built pump gas 406). I've held back from last year. I was getting my **** kicked and thought that was the problem. I studied on here all last winter. Decide that I probably didnt have the experiance to handle more power.Settled on freshing up the one I had and changed gears and cam. Made a lot of changes to the car set up and lost a lot of weight and added a lot of rear weight and won a lot of races. But as I got the car to hook I started to notice the lack of power. I just want a little more. So I plan on a small upgrade. I want to work into big horses down the road but think a little more torque will help the car and me. Maybe I'm up in the night but some things you have to figure out the hard way.

Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted September 27, 2004 11:06 PM  
big motors are good for torque and running taller gears will help
i finished the year 5th in points
and if most of the guys knew that they got beat by a pink 327 they would be very pi$$ed i can walk away from them almost every night if you don't believe me i can send you a tape my wife video's my races so i can study them
i am not bragging or preaching but bigger is not always the answer
sat night i beat the points leader by over 5 car lenghts and we were both over half a lap ahead of everyone else
so build what fits into your budget and what power you can handle and remember that you can only put so much power to the dirt!!!!!!!!!!!!
if you are lacking in the engine department then by all means go for more power but make sure that your car is handling the best it can be
corner like a van and launch out of the corner like a vw

drive hard or drive home

and the checkered flag is after the right turn LOL figure 8's forever LOL

Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 796
posted September 28, 2004 07:49 AM  
Eaton89, sounds like your doing it right to me. Upgrade what you can when you can.

Worked on the chassis and got it better, then the engine and got it better. Now it comes time for the next upgrade.

Looks like your on the right path to me.

Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 169
posted September 28, 2004 11:30 AM  
its kindsa late,but If i could have a car that handles perfect with a descent motor,or have a motor that makes huge power and a car thats a descent handling car,I would take better handling car.

Last year in my f/s I came mighty close to winning a championship,I couldnt ask for a better handling car,all year,My motot was a 350,stock rods,crank, and some cheapy hyperteck pistons,it had okay power,on tacky it would hold its own,another weekly guy had more motor than most of the mods,droppin big bucks in engines.I would nearly lap him,becouse while he was waiting for his car to turn,or boiling the back tires i was pulling away.

Point being,even if you got motor to pull ya down the straits,if im faster in the center,im gonna be faster down the straits.

And yep,I have won features too.

now,big motor,and great handling car,thats hard to beat!!

Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 77
posted September 28, 2004 08:13 PM  
The torque was my main point, 406 vs. 350. My 350 ran strong all year, just not the torque coming out that the other guys had. The car handles like a dream, so that is not my issues. Nobody pulls me on the straights, no matter the track conditions. The only place they are getting me is coming out the turns, but the only guys getting me are the bigger motor boys. I already know that bigger isn't always better, so that's not why I was asking about the 406. At my track it always goes dry/black slick, but mostly in the middle of the track. So to get good dirt, you have to go way low, or way high. I preferred low, which requires the torque. If I run the same heads and same cam as I did in the 350, how much more pull is this thing gonna have? I've never ran a 400 before so I'm not sure what to expect with it.

Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted September 28, 2004 11:08 PM  
heads will probably be ok but your gonna need a bigger cam do get the job done
check with some of the other circle track guys on what cam to run on the size track you run

drive hard or drive home

oh yea by the way the checkered flag is after the right turn LOL
figure 8's forever

Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 169
posted September 29, 2004 07:02 AM  
we cat run 400 in the factorys here.Have you played with different cams with the 350?

If ya think the chassis is good,then its prolly time to look into a better engine program.

Different gears could help with the 350
On my factory we ran a big 3/8 and I pulled a 680 final drive gear and turned about 7200-7400.

Goodluck to ya!

Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 77
posted September 29, 2004 09:42 AM  
I wish I could tell you my cam specs right off hand, but it's a good cam. It's a comp cam part # 12-506-5. I run on a 1/4 mile semi banked, wide track. Tranny is a powerglide with a 9" ford rear end geared to 620. Turned 5800-6000 all year.

Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 169
posted September 29, 2004 11:43 AM  
On a 1/4 mile I pulled a 740 gear.our factorys are like this.

asphalt take off tires.we would have to grove them for the dirt
10" wide wheels
3500# car
we could run torque tubes and mini clutches
Any carbs,just no alky
everybody ran double pumpers,usually a 750
stock crank and rods,but rarely do ya find em
2.02 double hump heads are the norm,no high rise intakes.

On the 1/4 with the 740 I would turn about 7300 usually.

differnt cars rules and different tires make a differece,but I would say ya under geared.

But if ya gotta build a new one,or can afford it,it makes more sence to build a better one!

Dirt Freak

Total posts: 217
posted September 29, 2004 06:14 PM  
klw45black I like the expression pin ball we had about 5 of them at the track this year.They went and bought their 700+ hp motors and might eventually figure how to get around the corners and how to keep it straght on the staights.And that they should use 4 tires insted of 8 in the corners.I think you need to hone your driving skills first then and some motor later . I do just fine with about 250 horses less than most every else.

Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 4
posted September 30, 2004 11:13 PM  
The first question how hard can I turn a stock 400. I would say not much over 6000 for any period of time. Stock 400 rods are weak. I will give you a couple of suggestions from my experiance. In the past three seasons I have built about 25 motors for street stock type cars and modifieds. About 70% 400-421. I have helped racers of all ranges budget wise. If you are looking for botom dollar. Use stock rods(5.7), stock crank, and at least hyper pistons. Use keith black pistons. I have had problems with other brands of hyper pistons. Good for 6400-6500 max. To increase a few hundred rpm say 6700-6800 I would say just add a better set of rods say any 4340 steel rods. I have had problems also with eagle sir rods they are 5140 steel they **** . For anything you are going to turn over 7000 I would say you need a good crank, rods and pistons. I have had good luck with buying complete balanced rotating assemblies with forged pistons, 4340 h-beam rods and 4340 steel cranks. I have ran this at 7100-7600 for a season with no problem. For the 400 or 350 question I would they both have there place and time. I would say 406 and learn to drive with the bigger motor you can always back out, but you cant always get more out of a smaller motor. I ran a 406 in my personal car last season won twice many top fives. It was a 406 stock crank(balanced), scat 4340 I beam rods, and kb hyper pistons. ran it 6800-7000 with no problem. This year had more money at the time so I put a 377 together forged pistons, Steel crank, and real good rods. I thought I would turn it harder with less stroke and better stuff. Ran it about 7500. Sixteen races 8 second places, 4 third through fifth, the rest tires and bad driving. Not saying it was the motor but it just didnt seam to have the acceleration where I needed it verses the 406. Hope this helps. This is just my opinion. I know some people run junk at 8000 rpm and it lives and others at 6000 and it blows so this is just my thoughts.

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