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Author Topic:   as water wetter
Dusty5
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted July 16, 2003 12:12 PM  
some told me i could use blue dawn dishwashing liquid. as a water wetter.

dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted July 16, 2003 01:00 PM  
Yes a few drops will release the surface tension and produce the same effect as water wetter. Only thing is it doesnt prevent rust and deposit formaiton like water wetter or purple ice will. On the other hand you get a very clean block.

rico 08
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1139
posted July 16, 2003 06:48 PM  
Runs good,smells even better!

BGA
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 78
posted July 16, 2003 10:27 PM  
a capfull of atf does the same as far as surface tension.

ss#4
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 110
posted July 17, 2003 11:54 AM  
I use Downy (or any fabric softner). NO JOKE. 20F drop in temp. Like rico80 says "smells good to".

ss#4
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 110
posted July 17, 2003 11:56 AM  
by the way I would stay away from soap. too much makes suds = steam pockets = hot spots = not good.

xhubby
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted July 17, 2003 11:06 PM  
How much fabric softener do you use?

dtd_93
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 132
posted July 21, 2003 09:28 PM  
so if I wanna go the atf way how much???

BGA
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 78
posted July 22, 2003 12:22 AM  
DTD,
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. One or two capfulls is all I have ever used. Seems to work just as well as water wetter. I have used both and noriced vey little diff.
Bruce

Dusty5
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted July 22, 2003 02:31 PM  
can you mix it with antifreeze

BGA
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 78
posted July 22, 2003 03:48 PM  
I am not sure about the anti freeze thing. IMHO you should get rid of the anti freeze and run plain watter to begin with.

Tim Weiss
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted July 22, 2003 04:45 PM  
On one of these post it said to use distilled water and it would run cooler. We just boiled our water. it now runs 10 degrees cooler than it did before.

restore1
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 10
posted July 23, 2003 12:55 PM  
Excuse my ignorance, but does atf stand for automatic transmission fluid?
Thanks

BGA
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 78
posted July 24, 2003 06:18 AM  
yes atf= auto trans fluid.

rob flugge
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted July 24, 2003 05:00 PM  
try a cup of diesal fuel does the same thing

Eljojo
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 968
posted July 24, 2003 10:40 PM  
I don't mean to sound like a smart eleck, but how much do you save by adding "homebrew" additives to your cooling system? I would think that, after spending a couple hundred on a radiator, probably at least half of that on a good aluminum pump, and hooking it to a motor you're hoping will take you to the front and keep twisting till the snow flies, the $2.98 jug of waterpump lube wouldn't break ya!
Jeez! Hide one crewman in the back of the hauler and the pit pass $$ you save will buy all the cooling additives you need......for you and your racecar!

The Outlaw
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 244
posted July 25, 2003 10:42 PM  
excellent point eljojo...lol

P5Racing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 57
posted August 03, 2003 01:01 AM  
will the diesal fuel do anything to the water pump or anything else in the long run.

cobb
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 131
posted August 03, 2003 01:23 AM  
umm lets see yall-rubber hoses-rubber seals in the pump and petroleum.......not good together

SLEEPY GOMEZ
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 295
posted August 03, 2003 12:48 PM  
Howard told me all the Stewart pumps have a seal that requires no lube. Use distilled water.SLEEPY

P5Racing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 57
posted August 30, 2003 03:33 PM  
thanks for all the help

dirtracer7
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 337
posted August 31, 2003 10:21 AM  
Idon't thimk I'd put anything in the cooling system but stuff made for that reason.Some post on the forum say anti-freeze lowers the boiling point well thats wrong.We all know water boils @ 212 deg. 50/50 antifreeze and water boils @ 223 deg. If we add a 14/15 lbs. radiator cap it raises the boiling point 45 deg. that would make the boilng point @ 268 how long will your motor last at 260 deg. Alot of us run 22-24 caps. don't have a boiling point figure for that.I run anti-freeze and haven't run over 195 all year theres alot other facters involved in keeping your motor cool.Alot of GM front drive cars don't turn there electric cooling fans on until temp. is @ 227 degs.with just water and a 14/15 lbs. cap they should be good to 257 deg.The aluminum radiator I'm using said not to use any after market additives due to they have not tested for adverse effects on the materials there radiators are made of .

Dusty5
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted October 05, 2003 01:02 AM  
Put NAPA COOL in and and 1/2 gal. antifreeze and drops 20 to 25 degrees.

amonett3rdgen
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 31
posted October 05, 2003 08:14 AM  
we used water wetter for 2 years. now we use fabric softer. better temp drop in longer races

dirtrace54
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 192
posted October 06, 2003 04:06 PM  
Wow, I can't believe the stuff put into these motors. I believe the distilled water effect, but some of these seem kinda crazy. I have never had any probs with running straight water with some sort of w.p. lube. If I ever did start having overheating probs, I would look at something other than additives. Even both our late model motors that arre on gas, not alky have never had that kind of overheating probs. We can keep 'em around 185. Mabye this can be a serious prob, but with all of our motors, I never have had a prob. Even ran a 454 in a super stock once and didn't have any probs. Let me know if I just lucky.

wermm
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 107
posted October 06, 2003 08:31 PM  
I had probs. all summer long, pulling in at 230 after a 8 lap heat race. We tried diff. fans,shrouds,plugs,jets,everything. After reading this thread I stole a couple caps full of the little womans fabric softenerand we never got over 200 plus it smells good

Mud Boy
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted October 07, 2003 11:44 AM  
Can someone explain the theory behind the softner keeping the engine cooler than without it. I am just curious. Have been having trouble with the new motor heating by the end of the feature and not sure if it is just the mud on the front or the timing and jets. but am just wondering about the fabric softner and how it could help. I have antifreeze/coolant but may try the softner also.


Dusty5
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 03, 2004 12:24 PM  
i tried almost allof these ideas. An i put a 4 blad fan off an old chevy pickup about a 55 chevy. thanks for all the help guys on this problem.

udecide66
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 229
posted January 03, 2004 08:35 PM  
I have noticed a few tracks here in the mountain region are not allowing anti-freeze in the cooling system, something to do with the EPA and overflowing on the track or in the pits, ( what the **** is a catch can for I ask) we have to use a bio-degradeable additive, guess how hard that is to find. so we will be sticking with straight water and maybe some fabric softener.

hughes
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 194
posted January 03, 2004 11:05 PM  
Mudboy,
The idea is to reduce the suface tension of the water. What that does is allow the water to get in to the pours of the cast iron easier. Surfactant is used in water wetter and in fabric softner/ dish washing soap/ laundry detergent etc. It is used so the water will get into the clothes istead of floating on top of the material. Take and wax your car. Remember how the water beads up and sits on top of the paint. The wax doesn't allow the water to get into the pours of the paint, therefore it beads up. Same thing with water in the block, but you want the opposite effect. So, now put just a dab of dish washing soapy water on the beads of water/ hood and it will go from a bead to flat on the paint. So, the basis of the story is surfactant is surfactant. That is how some have luck with fabric softner, and that bottle of water wetter is $9.00 at the track and usually you could use two bottles (my luck). As where fabric softner is a buck at family dollar and you have a whole lot of cap fulls in that bottle. Its not about lubing this or that it's about surface tension of the water. When the water is in the pours of the cast iron it pulls more heat.

Darkside1
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 36
posted January 04, 2004 09:07 PM  
Right on the mark. I had overheating issues the first few weeks of last year and the entire season prior to that. In 02 it was a cracked head and no matter what i did, it didn't matter. This year i dropped water wetter into the radiator along with distilled water and had a 20 degree drop in temp. I ended up losing a hose mid season and had no water wetter so I tried the fabric softer trick and dropped it almost another 10 degrees. There is nothing toxic in the softner so really there is no risk to your radiator. I have a $250 radiator and the thing looks brand new after 2 seasons.

24s52
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 122
posted January 04, 2004 09:22 PM  
I use the water wetter too, but like some have said it is more insurance for me. My car used to overheat during an 8 lap race (cruiser) so much it wouldn't start after inspection. We had to wait for it to cool down. Then we started figuring out better ways to cool the motor and we don't need the water wetter any more. But just in case - I still use it.

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted January 05, 2004 05:00 AM  
Skreetch (sound of can of worms opening).

If the power output of a motor is unchanged, which means the heat output is unchanged, if you don't change flow rate or pressure of the system, you add something to the water and temp drops .... all you did was take away the water's ability to absorb heat.

It's the same reason a "restrictor" doesn't work by "slowing the water down" - if you actually slowed the water down, it would stay in the motor longer, and actually heat up because water absorbs heat more efficently then it gets rid of it (at least in the racing cars we run). What a restrictor does in some applications is increase system pressure enough (same flow rate through a smaller orfice) to get rid of hot spots and steam pockets. In general nowadays they are useless.

The whole idea of "breaking surface tension" has application with a waxed car hood and falling off a wakeboard - nothing to do with 22psi water being tumbled and forced through a block.

I know, I know, everyone has "used a jar of gramma's molasses and the motor ran 40* cooler" .... it's because something else changed. Anyone with a dyno, who can actually control the conditions and repeat results will tell you there is no "magic" way to run a motor cooler unless you change the amount of area you are cooling it with, speed up the air passing through the exchanger, use cooler air, add volume to the system, or change the flow or pressure, or reduce power output.

hughes
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 194
posted January 05, 2004 08:00 AM  
Some use it, some don't, just explaining how it works. It works, but so does going from a cast iron water pump vs. an aluminium wp. Water takes the heat out of the block. I don't care if I have to take a dump in my motor, as long as it don't take a dump on the track.

24s52
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 122
posted January 05, 2004 09:04 AM  
What about a bigger water pump pulley to slow the flow of water? Does it stay in the motor longer and absorb more heat? Wouldn't it also stay in the radiator longer to cool down more too? Is this the same as the restrictor plate slowing the flow of water? To be honest, we didn't do one thing at a time and see what happened...we changed about 4 or 5 things at the same time so I was wondering which made more of a difference.

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted January 05, 2004 11:26 AM  
The Stewart Water Pumps site can tell you just about anything you need to know : http://www.stewartwaterpumps.com
click on the nascar, then choose tech help.

Everything we are discussing is covered there.

Darkside1
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 36
posted January 05, 2004 09:22 PM  
24s54...
Another idea for you, instead of screwing around with the pully setup, just get an impeller with fewer blades to slow down water flow. You can usually pick them up through auto parts stores and its not very difficult to change them

24s52
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 122
posted January 06, 2004 05:36 PM  
Thanks darkside... I have a water pump sitting here doing nothing. Extra. Can't hurt it so I will try that. Any idea how many blades to reduce by or is this some sort of standard part?

P5Racing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 57
posted January 28, 2005 10:40 PM  
i used blue dawn dishwashing liquid. worked real good

BIGG C
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 113
posted January 29, 2005 03:38 PM  
Use fabric softener not dishwashing liquid. Less foam and it smells better. I have been dealing with fluid dinamics for 20 years and slowing down the flow by pulleys and surficants both work. Restrictors do not increase pressure through the system, but does slow the flow through a smaller orifice. Thus increasing heat transfer. BIGG C

kcsparky
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 9
posted January 29, 2005 05:56 PM  
So can you use fabric softener and water wetter together? Just wanted to make sure there was some type of conditioner in there to keep things loose.

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