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Author Topic:   Tech Questions Answered Here
Burt Brown
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 29, 2002 11:40 AM
I was given this Message Board by a good friend of mine so I dropped by. I want to offer my Tech advise on Automatics. Feel free to E-Mail or Post a question and I'll be happy to answer any of your concerns or questions. Burt From Burt Brown Racing Transmissions at www.burtbrownracingtrans.com)

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Burt Brown

istock59
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 147
posted January 29, 2002 12:13 PM
Welcome Burt, glad to have you over here. I think you'll find none of that nonsense from the other board around here. Jammin seems to take care of that quickly.

Bluebomber
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 25
posted January 29, 2002 12:17 PM
glad to see you here burt that "stuff" on that other board was getting on by nerves

bluebomber

johnf57
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 5
posted January 29, 2002 08:53 PM
Do you have to do anything to the front pump on a powerglide to make it put out more pressure to be in a circle track car? Thank's

Burt Brown
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 29, 2002 09:42 PM
*******John; The pump only has to be touched if it needs new gears, front seal and bushing or replaced it if it looks wore out or damaged. It's not necessary but the pressure can be slightly incresed by modifying the valve body. If your with in a budget I recommend that you purchase and use a Transgo PG-2 Shift kit. This kit will give you everthing needed that will make your valve body a true race manual shift valve body or it can be kept automatic and manual,it gives you 2 choices. Burt

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Burt Brown

fastguy
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 2
posted January 29, 2002 10:17 PM
Burt, I'm interested in using a direct drive powerglide in second gear 1.82 ratio, ball valve operated with a straight coupler in my super stock. However, I race at another track that doesn't allow direct drive, is it possible to change back to a stock operating torque converter and use the same transmission. Thanks.

Burt Brown
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 29, 2002 10:50 PM
Fastguy; If you would like a daul purpose trans, the best way would be to install a internal operated valve body kit# TCI-744300,it can be purchased at Summit 1-800-230-3030 or at Jegs 1-800-345-4545 but Summit is cheaper. This design works off a spring loaded lever at the side of the trans to work the internal By-Pass inside the trans. When not using the lever, a real converter will work in the stock mode as long as the lever is left along and the spring keeps the lever by-pass shut during use of a real coverter. Burt

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Burt Brown

TCI
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 29
posted January 30, 2002 08:30 AM
Also make sure that the stator support tube on the front pump is still there. Alot of times they are cut off since they are not needed with direct drive, but it is needed when using a converter.

Scott

Burt Brown
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 30, 2002 08:55 AM
Racers; Scott brought up a good point. If your not doing the work yourself some buiders cut the stator tube off the front pump, it's not necessary to do this, if this is cut off the real converter won't work and I don't cut them off incase someone wants to go back using a real torque conveter. I'm sure of course that if you were doing this job yourself that you wouldn't of cut this tube off but a very good point. Another important point is when using direct drive couplers with soft plugs and spiral rings at the engine/flange end that you have then tig welded new or not to prevent them from blowing out, I had 7 of my customers have this happen to them in one year burning up their transmissions. Also when purchasing kits to install yourselfs inspect them for defects such as welds and such just to make sure they do not cause faiture and problems down the road also. Burt

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Burt Brown

jonboy
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 17
posted January 30, 2002 10:46 PM
Burt, What do you do to prevent case breakage around the pump? I like the powerglide but I'm concerned about the reliability. The ones that bleed off internally don't seem to last very long, whats your opinion?

Burt Brown
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 30, 2002 11:25 PM
Jon; I need to know what style of internal bleed off you are using? The valve body kit with spring and lever? Or where some butcher drill a hole in low gear servo bore on bottom inside pan. On my website under Products there is picture of our trans-brace for which you and the others are welcome to fabricate yourself. I have them in stock but my intent is not to be a salesman, my intent is to help the racers racing program and to help save the Automatics reputation. I have a Dirt Late Model at our local track that is sponsered by us. He races with a stroker 421 cubic inch Chevy and has run our 1.76 Heavy Duty Powerglide with Trans-Brace for 3 full race seasons without a rebuild,trans failure and no case breakage. Burt www.burtbrownracingtrans.com

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Burt Brown

dirtracer14
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 333
posted January 31, 2002 12:21 AM UIN: 23443678
I have run the TCI powerglide for about 4 years up till last year when we got a car that gets super bite and we were afraid of breaking the case. The other thing is that instead of the spiral lock i made a allum bushing to go in front of the shaft that worked real well. I lost sevaral of those locks and was worried about losing it in a race so we made the bushing and problem solved. Looking at the "cradle" i have thought about putting a glide back in for next year. Can anyone tell me what it takes to turn a powerglide verus a 5 1/2 tilton with a muncie with 1st and 2nd out. Thanks

Burt Brown
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 31, 2002 07:29 AM
Dirtracer14; Your just another positive example that an automatic can do a fine job when maint tained and driven correctly. If your are reffering to the spiral ring for putting in the selective ring groves for pump end play, we have not had many problems with that, the problems some customers were having was that were the couplings had been machined for splines at the end for fitting the input shaft splines, where the factory installed a soft plug followed by a smaller spiral ring. I build as a individual and a one man team 100s of racing transmissions a year, out of those hundreds, 7 brand new drive couplers failed with the soft plugs on the end blew out along with the all trans fluid so now it has been made standard proceedure to have anyone who buys a coupler of this design to tig weld the end soft plug in to guarantee that this will never happen again! Burt www.burtbrownracingtrans.com Also visit my artical at: racingweb.com

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Burt Brown

TCI
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 29
posted January 31, 2002 08:45 AM
Dirtracer14: A standard Powerglide pulls 18HP in Hi gear. I'm not sure what the manual setup would pull. Also, your only looking at 22-24lbs of overall rotating weight. The brace that Burt is talking about is an excellent idea. Wayne Brooks has been running our transmission for the past 5-6 years and using a brace simiular to Burts and has never broken a case. I would definitely recommend something like that.
One other thing to check is the actual yoke travel. If your running a 4 bar car it can be a big problem. We've found out that you need 2 1/2" - 2 3/4" of the yoke out of the transmission.

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Scott Miller
TCI Automotive, LLC
662-224-8972 ext 332

[This message has been edited by TCI (edited January 31, 2002).]

istock59
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 147
posted January 31, 2002 11:07 AM
Burt, I took a look at the brace you show on your webpage. Will that fit under a stock tunnel? I've never had a problem breaking cases, but I don't want to start either. Right now the glide hangs on just the rear engine mounts.

powerglides
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 170
posted January 31, 2002 11:12 AM
Burt, The butchers you talk about internally modifying powerglides is not really true. Some racers can have no external mods. That is like telling the tech guy that he is running a direct transmission. My internal directs run for two seasons + without a problem. Also I don't drill the servo bore. This topic is good just thought another opinion was good also. Don

Burt Brown
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 31, 2002 02:53 PM
Don; The internal modes I was referring to WAS the drilled servo bore not the other GOOD internal by-pass designs. I myself have 2 models of the internal operated designs operation and 2 models of the ball valve designs. I have been building transmissions for close to 25 years and know by the burnt and destroyed units that have cluttered my bench with the drilled servo bore not being the best design. I have no problem with other design internal by-passes, just the drilled servo one. I would never build nor sell a Powerglide with the low gear servo drilled. When this is done it limits how long you can safetly hold it in low without causing burned up low gear bands and scored high gear drums. No offence was ment, just sharing tech experiences. Burt (440)-997-5309 www.burtbrownracingtrans.com

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Burt Brown

Burt Brown
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 31, 2002 03:03 PM
istock59; On the Trans-Brace issue, 99% of the time there is no clearance problems because it is and can be made to hug close to the case. When used in a street stock that has a cross member, the brace at the trans flange will accept a rubber stock type transmission mount, DO NOT USE A SOLID STEEL MOUNT AT THE CHASSI FITTED CROSS MEMBER IN A CIRCLE TRACK CAR. You are welcome to print out and copy the Trans-Brace off our website. My concern is saying cases and premature trans failure. Burt www.burtbrownracingtrans.com

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Burt Brown

jakeman21
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 10
posted February 01, 2002 02:28 PM
Hey Burt, Can you put a pressure guage on a powergluide,what kind of pressure would it read, were would you put it...Thanks

Burt Brown
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted February 01, 2002 04:34 PM
Jakeman21; It would varie in pressure readings depending if it is a stock pressure regulator spring in the valve body or not in the valve body. I normally do not have the stock pressure readings but have made tests on Drag Race Powerglides at the low gear servo tap with the trans-brake ingaged and I'm thinking it was between 180-210# PSI. I build with all new parts and do the bench work only so it's rare that I would check this. Some have 3 pressure taps,1 the front lower par of case for high gear,1 at low gear servo and 1 at the rear by reverse area. I believe that Scott from TCI would have testing results on this seeing he may have books on it. Sorry that I did not have what you asked for. Maybe someone out there may have a manual on them. The manual I have on these is between my ears. Thanks:-)Burt www.burtbrownracingtrans.com

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Burt Brown

johnf57
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 5
posted February 01, 2002 10:50 PM
Burt I just want to thank you for your time in answering all these questions. It's nice to talk to someone who takes the time to talk to you without trying to sell you something. I will definitively call you the next time I have to buy a new trans. I've been running Bushore trans. for 3 years. I get about 30 races out of them then they seem to mess up. I have built my one for my relatives that last longer. I have been to boone three times and every year I have trans. trouble and end up buying a new on. I have three of them in my garage right now but any more trouble and I will be calling for one of your's. Thank's for your time.

yellowjacket45
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 37
posted February 02, 2002 01:30 AM
jakeman21, pressure depends on the application,on the dragrace tranny you need the higher preasures to hold it in forward and reverse at the same time but in circle track you don't need that much,I've been running around 150psi with no slippage,also lower pressure takes less horse power, we built our own test stand with a 5hp engine and run it at 1800rpm to check preasure.

Burt Brown
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted February 02, 2002 08:40 AM
Powerglide line pressures; Yellowjacket45 has stated his findings on line pressures so his reading is a good starting point so that as low as 150 psi for circle track will sustain trans life and allow it to work properly. I make up and modify my own manual shift valve bobies for circle track. Also I have all the springs made for them at a spring plant. I would say the line pressure they provide for Circle Track are between 150 to 175 lbs line pressure. All I know is that they work because before I built for the public and race field, we had 4 test cars for R & D,(1)477 cu in BB,1100 horse Power Blown Alchol Drag Car that runs 7.38 sec at 187 mph,(2)421 cu in Stroker Dirt Late Model,(3)E-Mod with a 406 cu in,(4)A Street Stock with a 406 cu in. We did about a 4 year R&D test study on them before releasing any products to the public. The drag car finished 3 in points. The Dirt Late Model running the only Powerglide automatic at our local track finished 3 in points,the E-Mod won the points championship at one track and set a new track speed record at another. The street stock finished in the top ten due to engine troubles. I will mention as yellowjacket45 stated, Drag Racing and Circle Track are two different applications so they are built differently. I want to point out another very important factor. The Drag Racing automatic has a converter, the Direct Drive automatic does not. The torque converter has a tendency to cushion the upshifts somewhat, where as the Direct Drive is locked soilid to the crank. Here's where the misconception comes in! You can not modify a Direct Drive Valve Body exactly the same a Drag Racing Valve Body and expect the same results when upshifting on the restarts. I have heard bum raps given to the Automatic such as how they want to upshift on restarts but the u-joints, drive shafts or the trans comes apart! This is where I have put my ear to the ground and listoned to the demands of the race people and test cars. I changed the way that circle track direct drives upshift thanks to my racing friends. I modified the Direct Drive valve bodies differently then the transmissions having converters so that the trans does not snap, bang, break while being upshifted at full thottle when being upshifted on the restarts, this is why you hear horror stories about circle track racers being afraid to up shift and break transmissions while upshifting them. Just remember, a direct drive is locked solid steel to steel to the engines crank with a coulpler with no converter full of fluid slipping to absorb the shock of the gear change. Burt (PS) Check out my artical on racingweb.com www.racingweb.com

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Burt Brown

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