Visit The Dirt Forum for More Information

Author Topic:   PULL BAR / TORQUE ARM *LIFT*
jklostermann
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted November 29, 2001 06:03 PM
HOW MUCH LIFT IS TOO MUCH? ALSO WHICH (pullbar/torque link)IS BETTER AT PRODUCING THE MOST LIFT, AND BETTER AT DISTRIBUTING THE TORQUE AT THE REAR TIRES? AND IS IT BAD TO BE PULLING THE FRONT TIRES OFF THE GROUND COMING OUT OF A TURN?

spde
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 63
posted November 29, 2001 08:33 PM
I don't know how much lift is to much, but I have a Pierce Built mod with a lift bar, and if the track is dry or wet the left front is off the ground. When the track is really tacky it feels like it will flip over when you jump in the gas. I ran a pull bar on my old car and honestly I dont know how much different it hooks up (the cars were so different). I do know that it hooks up really well. I have only ran the car about 1 1/2 months, so next year I'll know more. I do think that if I was pulling the left off the ground any more than 1'-1 1/2' I would change springs around to keep it under that measurement. I think it upsets the car to much when the left front comes back down on the track. I am also going to add a 2nd shock to the rear end to help slow down the brake torque. I have found that when you get off the gas it can really jerk the car down. The lift bar is for sure way different to drive , I do like it alot though. If you got any more questions write me back and we'll talk. I dont think you'll get many repies because not many mod guys like the lift bars.
good luck. ltr spde

cleatus
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 58
posted November 29, 2001 09:59 PM
I just bought a Shaw with lift bar.It has a 150# spring.The guy I bought it from said he tried different rates and progressives and the 150# gave the best forward bite.Also nothing is floated on the rear end. I haven't driven it yet so all I can go by is how good he said it worked. It was also swithed from a 7" shock on the left front to a 9" becouse he said it would lift the left front when the shock ran out of travel on the 7". Like I said I haven't driven it yet so I really have no feedback or suggestions, but if anyone else does I could use some too.

jklostermann
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted November 30, 2001 09:25 AM
WELL CLEATUS I'M IN THE SAME BOAT YOU ARE! I JUST BOUGHT A SHAW WITH A LIFT BAR AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO EXPECT. I'VE HEARD TO RUN ANYTHING FROM A 600# SPRING TO A 150#. MAYBE WE CAN SWAP NOTES DURING NEXT SEASON TO SEE WHAT WORKS BEST ON THESE THINGS. IF YOU HAVE ANY WAY TO EMAIL ME SOME PICS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW YOURS LOOKS. JKLOSTERMANN@HOTMAIL.COM

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 5060
posted November 30, 2001 09:30 AM UIN: 16262997
Guys...on a lift bar....I run one too.....the length of the bar will determine your starting point of the spring rate. The best way to test it is to watch your travel. On a tacky track you will want a stiffer spring so that traction will come in sooner....you wont have to worry about breaking tires loose. When the feature rolls around you will have to play with it and soften it up a bit to put some give in the suspension so that you can still hook up but not break loose. You can angle in the eliminator and change your rates but running up and down and changing your rates is the best way. I hope this helps some.

jammin

jklostermann
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted November 30, 2001 11:11 AM
JAMMIN,

WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE LENGTH OF THE ARM WHAT EXACTLY DO THEY MEAN? THE ARM ON MY CAR IS PRETTY LONG, HOWEVER IT HAS MOUNTING HOLES ALL THE WAY UP AND DOWN IT. DO YOU MEAN MOVING THE SPRING CLOSER OR FARTHER FORM THE REAREND OR SHORTER AND LONGER ARMS ALTOGETHER?

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 5060
posted November 30, 2001 11:18 AM UIN: 16262997
The placement of the spring on that arm basically increases or decreases spring rate...if you move the eliminator and spring farther away from the rear end, you just increased the leverage and it will not compress the spring as much(similar to a harder spring rate), if you move it closer you allow it to compress the spring easier which is similar to a lighter spring rate.

wfoondirt
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 242
posted November 30, 2001 02:16 PM
the length of the bar also determines the amount of anti-squat. Anti-squat increases with a shorter bar.

Chad
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 82
posted November 30, 2001 02:43 PM
I have run a Shaw car with a lift bar with quite a bit of sucess over the past 4 yrs. I found that I needed to move the spring back toward the rear end housing to give me quicker reaction of the traction. Granted, my track is fairly tacky in Calif. I started running the long bar with a 150-175 lbs spring, and had sucess. But, when I moved the spring back 6-12" to gain increased reaction, I had to increase the spring rate to 300-350 lbs. From the prior posts, I have never lifted my tires off the ground, and I can assure you that I have had some pretty stout motors and very good track conditions. Don't expect to do this just with the lift bar, there are some other suspension factors at work to make the car do that. Many feel that it is not desireable for the front tires to come off the track. Good luck. Keep asking questions and I'm sure we will be able to get you close.

cleatus
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 58
posted November 30, 2001 08:23 PM
The AFCO site said to run it at 10-15 a degree angle. I'm assuming that's angled down in front like the pinion. Mine looks almost level. Personaly I don't consider what the front left is going up or down. If I have the car setup right I figure it's gonna do what it's gonna do. The slider on my liftbar spring is showing it was getting about 6" of travel. What do you think, too much or too little?

oilpan
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 17
posted December 01, 2001 05:01 AM
6 inches of travel is way tp much, you want to keep it around 2 or 3 inches of travel.

cleatus
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 58
posted December 01, 2001 09:04 AM
So should I change spring rate or move the spring, it's on the very end of the bar now.It's the long style arm

Jklostermann, I think you tried to email me but the page was blank, I tried back and it keeps returning. I may need to get my 12yrold to figure it out.

spde
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 63
posted December 01, 2001 03:30 PM
I didn't think that many guys run lift bars on there cars. Thats cool because now I dont feel like a weirdo. So do any of your guys have a spring attached to your chain link? Or what are you all using to help dampen the brake torque? Has anyone tried reverse mounting 90/10 shocks, I mean mounting them on the rearend housing and facing to the rear of the car? With either the shock level or negative angle on it? I saw alot of dw's running them like that this year. I also run my pull bar level to the ground but I'm have that afco bar that you can adjust to keep level. I do run about 8-9 degrees of pinion angle. Also I have about 2"-3" of travel on my pull bar after running the races. I think 6" of travel is to much, I think it would really be slow getting of the corner with that much travel on it. It may work well on a long, long dry slick. If it was me Cleatus I would either more the spring towards the rearend or stiffen the spring a 100 or so. hey guys so who is going to come racing by me in march at the practice? Hope to see ya all there!
ltr spde

jklostermann
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted December 01, 2001 11:49 PM
Cleatus,

ya i tried, i'll resend it later.

anyway i call shaw and they sent me their 97 setup setup sheet. it has the torque arm specs and their basic 97 setup on it. if you want i can fax or email it to you, your choice. if you could, would you email me some pics of your car and how all the suspenion is bolted on. thanks

cleatus
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 58
posted December 04, 2001 03:49 PM
J- I live in the country and keep forgetting to stop and pick up film when I'm in town. I will have some taken by Wed. sorry about taking so long.

cleatus
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 58
posted December 04, 2001 06:35 PM
I tried sending the pictures but they keep coming back. You may want to resend your adress or call me at 480-857-7223

36k
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 103
posted December 05, 2001 08:39 PM
SPDE, DW runs the 90/10 towards the rear on the short swingarm set-up because of the mounting.

spde
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 63
posted December 05, 2001 11:13 PM
36k what do you mean because of the mounting? is there not room in front or just better for the swing arm setup?

cleatus
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 58
posted December 09, 2001 06:05 AM
How are most shocks and springs mounted with this type of system?? Mine has the left rear spring behind the axle tube and the right rear in front.

spde
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 63
posted December 11, 2001 09:20 PM
The springs on mine are mounted w/ the lr in the front of the axle and the rr in the rear. The shocks are just the opposite of the springs. Both have some sight angle towards the middle of the chassis.

Back to the Archives