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Author Topic:   new mod class
modxxx
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 2
posted November 08, 2001 05:23 PM
In mid ohio area they are trying to start a new mod class and I am looking for interest and your comments.

THe track that has been mentioned for the new class would tenatively be the formerly closed McCutchenville Speedway.

Right now its in the forming stages and nothing is set in stone currently.

The rule are the same as IMCA except the following;

THe motor claim is $1000.00 and exchange
Alluminum heads are allowed with no weight penalty.

Tires can be IMCA or Hoosier D-40 and Right Rear can be a no larger than 10 inches wide and no softer in compund than a D-40, bead lock is allowed on RR only.

Any transmission is allowed including Bert,Brinn, or Raptor.

No weight limit on car

Alluminum wheels allowed

Rear Spoiler is allowed no taller than 8 inches.

Any rear end can be used including quick change.

I think this will be a good economic mod class based on these rules.

This will allow me to build a cheap car and not be restricted by IMCA and UMPs rules.

Durability and reliabilty will never be a problem either since you can run all the good stuff.

Plus with the claim set high you wont have to worry too much about getting claimed.

I excited about the trans deal I have been bustin 3 speeds every season and with all the money I have tied up in them its been a waste. I bouhgt an used brinn from one my late model buddies and I can run it now.

Let me know what yall think of the new class.

General
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 151
posted November 08, 2001 06:45 PM
I think you need to add two things. 10 inch alluminum wheels all around and front fenders. Whala! YOU HAVE A LATEMODEL.

jklostermann
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted November 08, 2001 07:02 PM
WOW Sounds like a **** of a deal, I wouldn't mind that coming to Southern Illinois.

XMod
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted November 08, 2001 10:50 PM
how is that an cheaper car to build?

tmtrigg4
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47
posted November 09, 2001 07:52 AM
You might consider wedge type bodies because they are flat sided, easier to build and you won't have to buy one. Lexan isn't very expensive either, might as well put side boards on it.
When you get down to it that stock front clip is hard to work with, it is much easier to work with new tubing and build it exactly like it needs to be.
I think that you get my point.
I am not trying to slam you. This is the exact evolution that will destroy modifieds. Your economy has to be in better shape than the rest of the country if racers,race fans, and promoters can support the necessary purses to support such a class. Good luck and I hope that your car count can exist with rules like these. You will spend a tremendous amount of money on these pseudo late models and not be able to run anywhere else without spending some more to comply with rules at other tracks.

daniell
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 12
posted November 09, 2001 08:22 AM
why make drastic changes to a class of cars that have become so popular in a relatively short period of time, that weekly put on the best show and have the highest car counts.

bkap
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 61
posted November 09, 2001 11:07 AM
Great sense of humor, Modxxx. But if it's true, you're about to be passed repeatedly by some really expensive equipment. I hope you enjoy the view. And the expense. And the frustration. And the eventual low car counts. Because if you are serious, we're on such a steep slope that pretty soon you'll be able to run coaster cars.

KK17
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 144
posted November 09, 2001 06:31 PM
I am serious and don't call me Shirley!!!yuck yuckyucklolololololololololololol.....

modxxx
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 2
posted November 09, 2001 07:05 PM
I cant begin to understand why yall dont think these mods would be cheaper ?

Since we are putting the claim high guys can go out and build reliable and durable motors and not have to worry about that nasty IMCA claim rule.

Plus you could run any trans, and the upfront cost will be more but when you will have a more durable and reliable part that will last . And once all the trans companies get involved you know the price will come down.

Same on the quick change since we wont have to buy as many gears we will save in the end.

Cant you see this would be a lot cheaper for a mod class in the long run ?

I read some other post today and these kind of rules are just what a lot of guys are begging for.

We also figure that this way a lot of late model guys can run with our class with out having but nuch except for the chassis.

They can even run there motor, trans, adn rear end.

This has got be the cheap way in the end for mods, you guys are just not keepin durabilty and reliabilty in mind when you read the new rules we are thinking of runnin.

dirttrackracer
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 77
posted November 09, 2001 09:21 PM
MODxxx,if you are serious,which I doubt,why not take a late model and remove the fenders,then you have the class you describe.It would be a "modified" on Friday night and a late model on Saturday night just by putting a few rivets in the fender.

mod257
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 0
posted November 10, 2001 08:50 AM
imca modifieds run on g60 dot's the tire does not put enough strain for the legal stuff to not be durable. I think the claim for imca is great along with the tire.I just wished the tire had deeper tread so i could get a few more races out of them.Im glad my track is not starting a class like this or i would be out of racing.the cost would be to high.The so called good stuff is not bullet proof also.

just my thoughs

Rooster
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 117
posted November 10, 2001 11:01 PM
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

x13jc
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 191
posted November 11, 2001 12:48 PM UIN: 27426975
Well, my 2 cents worth,
1) there has been talk of reopening that track for years, heck, I even called the owner down in florida last year to find out what the story was. Didn't seem interested
2) keep the rules simple
3) we won't run there if a special tire is required with the track stamp on it.
4) we would frequent the track if rules are the same as either ump, or AMRA.


------------------
RACERX

millerlt3
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 95
posted November 11, 2001 01:56 PM
Hey modxxx, I would tend to agree with most of the reply's your getting, you may think the $1000.00 claim is a good thing but I agree with bkap when he says your going to be past by some really expensive hi dollar equipment. They have that $1000.00 claim at the track my brother runs, Altamount raceway park in CA. and the only thing that claim does is make it possible for the big money sponsored teams to build 700 + Horsepower, $25,000.00 motors and the only guys who can afford to claim is these same guys who really dont need to. And you might want to ask yourself a question or two, 1st. are you competetive now, 2nd. how many times have you been claimed. 3rd. can you afford to build a $15,000.00 or $20,000.00 to be competetive, and can you afford to loose it for A $1000 bucks then turn around and spend another $15,000.00 to get back in the game. NOT ME! But thats just my opinion.

irace74
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 38
posted November 11, 2001 09:04 PM
THE RULES YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE EXTREMELY SIMILAR TO THE RULES WHICH ARE RUN AROUND HERE IN CENTRAL MO. REGRETTABLY ITHINK YOU WILL FIND THAT IT WILLONLY ENCOURAGE BIG ONEY INTO THE GAME. AT A LOCAL TRACK IN THE A-MODIFIED CLASS THERE ARE VERY FEW MOTORS UNDER 420 CU IN AND EVEN FEWER THAT ARE NOT PROFESSIONALLY BUILT. THERE GOES THE THOUGHT THAT MODIFIEDS CAN BE ECCONOMICAL. I HAVE POSETED COMMENTS BEFORE ON THE TOPIC OF MODIFIED RULES. SHOULD WE AS A CLASS BE GETTING BACK TO THE GRASS ROOTS OF MODIFIED RACING? IF YOU WANT TO RUN BETTER THEN CLAIMER STUFF THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN IT WILL EXPLODE WHAT ABOUT SPEC MOTORS? IT HAS WORKED FOR ASA. JASPER AND OTHER PROFESSIONAL BUILDERS CAN CREATE A SPEC GRADE CRATE MOTOR WHICH IS SEALED AND READY TO GO FOR $8000; YOU CAN RACE THE ENTIRE YEAR. LET'S GET BACK TO MOTORS WHICH PRODUCE 450-500 HP AND PUT THE DRIVER AND SUSPENSION BACK INTO THE CLASS AND HAVE FUN DOING IT. ELIMINATE GOLD TRACKS AND STUTTER BOXES BY PLACING AN EXCHANGE CLAIM ON THOSE ITEMS AS WELL AS SHOCKS AND LET'S RACE.

xman
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 13
posted November 12, 2001 02:49 AM
Need to put in my 2 cents
1st alum. wheels I would like to know were you find alum. wheels cheaper than Areo steel wheels.
2nd $1000.00 claim rule is the best way to get these people with unlimited cash flow to come in and ruin the class, look at UMP I know guys with $15000.00 motors with only a $500.00 claim so you tell me what the problem is? The problem is all these sanctions should write in the rules what the motor should be Just like the IMCA late models with the spec carb. intake, etc.....
Modified class was to be the economy class of racing for the average Joe!

fury
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 68
posted November 13, 2001 12:14 AM
It would appear that 13 posts or so dont like the new rules that these guys are considering.

These rules are VERY simular to UMP. In fact those of us that run at UMP tracks know that the CLAIM no longer exsist. I have not seen a claim in 3 years or more, at a UMP track.
You can run anything you want and not worry as far as motor

That being said in my opinion all those guys on the transmission post that want to approve Berts and Brinns for IMCA should love the rules that Modxxx has listed.

Cause if those folks have there way this is exactly what we will all be running LATE MODELS WITH 8" TIRES !!!

YOu notice you dont see too many of the guys that were trying to get the Bert and Brinns approved complaining about modxxx rules..........ha ha

Once they get the trans in then they will want quick changes and it will never stop.

DOnt be fooled by there lies saying that we need to change the rules for the sake of reliability and durability, when we know the buy in is much higher and will not go down if the rules are open up to allow any trans, because this will open the rules so everyone can build a better, lighter, and more expensive trans, and it will never end.

Since these guys are so concened about reliability and durability then they should LOVE the rules that Modxxx is talking about cause based on the scheme the rules are wide open so that they can build those durable reliable motors and trans that they want and run in fenderless 8" inch LATE MODEL CLASS which is where these guys need to be running.

I for one like the IMCA rules and I support any measure that will keep cost down in this class so that it can stay competitive for everyone not just the guys with the big pocket books that just dropped down from LATE MODELS.

PRICES for our class are already sky high and we dont need to change the rules to make them higher by allowing everyone to run whatever trans they want no thanks.

If you dont like it run something other than IMCA, like UMP, and please QUIT trying to make IMCA into UMP.

Sorry Modxxx I know I got off the subject of your post.

[This message has been edited by fury (edited November 13, 2001).]

moprmike26
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 13
posted November 13, 2001 09:30 AM
I think that some things modxxx is saying make sence. Here at HRP, we run UMP and there is little chance of getting claimed, but to make sure, some of us run parts from mother mopar. Our parts are a little harder to come by, but with the horsepower we can make it's worth it.
I just wish we could run a bert or brinn. It would make it better for us to be able to hook up that power without worrying about breaking in the feature.
Just my 2 cents.

brownstone
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 107
posted November 13, 2001 12:30 PM
Oddly enough I have a good friend that runs at HRP and gets the results on a regular basis . Neither one of us have ever seen a display of mopar horsepower up front.

I have heard that there is guy at HRP that claims that he has a 318 mopar that will out run 406 chevies are you that guy ?

I have only heard of one mopar that may have won a fetaure one time in all the years that HRP has been open so......

Where is all this Mopar horspower you mentioned ?

As a matter of fact the weak link in a small block mopar is the crank. Instead of worrying about a bert or a brinn for your mopar I would invest in a steel crank.

THis is the only way you can build enough horsepower with a dodge to break a tranny and still have a reliable mopar motor.

Good Luck!

jklostermann
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted November 13, 2001 12:48 PM
I run on a UMP tracks and your right, you don't have to worry about getting claimed. However its not just the motor that will pass you as you go around the track! Your forgetting that the motor is less then half the battle, you also have to have a good chassis setup and as a driver you must be able to handle the car. My four hundred and ten cubic inch horse as been beat by 355's, 383's with no problem. So remember it's not JUST the motor.

I do like the fact we can run a Burt transmission. They are in my eyes the only way to go!

The thing I like the most about your rules is the fact you can run a spoiler. I wish UMP would allow this!

moprmike26
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 13
posted November 13, 2001 04:16 PM
Brownstone,
I didn't mean to walk on any toes. Your takeing this to personaly. I do have a steel crank in my motors and I also run aluminum heads.
I don't know who you've been talking to, but if you ask around, I'm sure that you will find that my car HAS won a feature or two at HRP, and a couple of other tracks in the Houston area.
The thing I was saying was a bert or brinn would be a good thing to have so you wouldn't have to worry about breaking a tranny like the glide guys do, and the heavy clutch and flywheel we run now.
I dont bash chevy guys for running chevys, but I think that any person can race a chevy. It takes a little more sence to run with mother mopar.

brownstone
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 107
posted November 13, 2001 04:20 PM
Mike:

No offense intended or given I hope. If you enjoy running Mopar that is your choice and its not my buisness.

Best of Luck.

BHD43
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 7
posted November 13, 2001 08:16 PM
I run in a series in the southwest that uses IMCA rules except the following:
$500 and engine exchange
any transmission
5" spoiler
We have not had any claims and the IMCA tire really keeps the playing field level. We had SEVENTEEN different feature winners in the first twenty three races. The IMCA tire and strict tech inspection keeps our series extremely competitive without the huge tire bill.

moprmike26
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 13
posted November 14, 2001 01:30 PM
Brownstone, where do you run and how many have you won? I was just thinking that if you run a chevy and hadn't won any that you might be better to run with mopar to. They make plenty of power and theres no danger of a claim. Just my opinion.

brownstone
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 107
posted November 14, 2001 04:02 PM
Mike:

I have run the mod class and even ran a mopar for 3 seasons in UMP, before coming to my senses and switching to Chevy.

And yes I have won some features in fact with a Mopar. So when I speak of Mopar power I know full well what I speak of.

I know exactly how to make the oil modifications needed to make a small block chrysler live and stay together running as much as 8500 rpms consistenly.

Since switching to a different brand chassis and to Chevy and moving back to Texas in the last year I have only ran 4 nights. I ran at the World Mod Race in Batesville ( did not make the big show )and at the 3 day funfest in Larwrenceburg Indiana.

I am looking forward to running at Pleasanton IMCA track next season. My car number is 51 look for us next year if you are running up there.

When it comes to running mopar I have ran many combos, I am not saying you cant be successfull in a dodge but when you weigh out the cost and all to me it was not worth it.

For one, to get a depandable forged crank you must spend almost $1000 bucks. For that price I can buy a SCAT 38lbs ultralite crank for chevy.

I ran the cast crank which I had ion nitrated for durability with some success.

ALso since the 360 is externally balanced you must shell out even more money to have it switched to internally balanced so that the motor will live in the 7000 rpm range.

The 340 is internally balance but unless you happen to have a boat load of 340 blocks around this does you no good. But then once again there are no high compression pistons availble other than custom sets for the 340.

Also the mopar block and crank is much heavier than a chevy, this does not help when you are wantng to take the car as deep into the turn as possible.

The only high comp. piston available for dodge 360 is a KB cast piston. They are only available for the 360 not the 340.

I had no trouble with these, but they are cast. If you want a forged high comp. piston then you must order a custom set which is not cheap.

So in my opinion there are no advantages to running Mopar other than the claim if you are running at an IMCA track.

If you are running UMP then no one claims anymore so you can pretty much run whatever you want.

In the end due to prices and the availabilty of running better parts at better prices with a better selection, chevy is the way to go.

I mean no offense towards you Mike or anyone with this email just sharing my opinion.

Good luck with your mopar mod.

bogged
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 53
posted November 14, 2001 05:31 PM
has anyone given any thought as to why it is now possible to hook up 600+ hp. 6 to 7 years ago, if a guy showed up with a high hp engine he went straight to the back. i feel that the higher rear percent obtained in current cars is to blame. years ago, the most that was possible was around 53-56% rear, transmissions and other parts did not fail becouse you could not get it to hook up without the weight on the tires. limiting the allowable rear percentage could be one way of eliminating the big engines and broken parts. just my opinion.

xman
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 13
posted November 15, 2001 04:05 AM
UMP and sanctioned tracks need to enforce the rules like they are written it is getting to out of hand.

modracr41
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 55
posted November 15, 2001 08:48 AM
I think you might have a point with the rear %. More rear % puts more weight over the rear tires without increasing overall weight. I don't see how you could make a rule change limiting rear %, but it would have an impact on hooking up the horsepower. Another thing that has improved over the last 6-7 years is the design of the rear of the car. 6-7 years ago, there were still a lot of mono-leaf cars with the eliminators and multi-leaf cars. This type of set up can be good on a tacky track, but on a slick track, if the weight doesn't transfer, you are limited on hooking up the horsepower again.
Today, 85% of the cars run some type of 3 or 4 link set-up or a Z-link set-up. This allows the car to be adjusted for the different track conditions, and there's no binding.
I still think that the key to this whole topic is enforcement of the existing rules and sticking to what's written, not a "loose" interpretation of what isn't said. Just my two cents and.............see ya at the track!!

[This message has been edited by modracr41 (edited November 15, 2001).]

tmtrigg4
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47
posted November 16, 2001 09:57 AM
Brownstone,
Glad to hear that you will be running in Pleasonton. That is where we are going to run next year. There should be a decent car count for the coming season. Look forward to meeting you.

TMTRIGG4

moprmike26
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 13
posted November 19, 2001 09:25 AM
Brownstone,
Sounds good. We'll see how that chevy runs against my 318. After it's done, you might want to switch back to ma mopar.
Don't worry, we won't hold too big a gruge for you slipping to the chebby fold.
Mike

xman
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 13
posted November 20, 2001 02:37 AM
modxxx, about the tire situation why not make it A-40's all the way around or just on rear? The Northern Allstar Latemodel's have the rule of 40's on rear and I think rf, It saves money cause you can run them more than 2 nights and everyone is on the same hard a-- tire. Just a suggestion.

dirttrackracer
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 77
posted November 20, 2001 07:59 PM
xman,nothing that modxxx is saying is going to save money,so why worry about tires.

fury
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 68
posted November 20, 2001 10:09 PM
I cant belive yall dont think these rules would not save money LOL just look at the Transmission Rule posts and you can see that a lot of guys seem to think that these rules would save money because of durabilty and reliabilty, yeah right LOL

flyin41
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 5
posted November 20, 2001 11:56 PM
I dont think these kind of rules would make a class that is any cheaper at all. Now if everyone had to run a crate engine like they do in ASA it would be one less thing to spend your money on. In UMP if you dont have at least 600 hp you might as well forget about being competitive on a hooked up track. My dad and I have been running two cars for the past two years but we decided to sell out of everything we have because we have to put everything into the cars that we have to be competitive and even with the best equipment you can only win $400 a night!! It's just not worth it if the expenses keep going up and the payout on most occasions in Southern IN goes DOWN, it just doesnt make sense does it??

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