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Author Topic:   Left Rear Bite (Wedge)
tagteam racing
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted October 16, 2001 12:24 PM
How much is too much left rear bite??? Is it better to run the weight more equal on rear tires? What about rear percentage on a extremely dry slick tight no banked track?

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 5060
posted October 16, 2001 01:02 PM UIN: 16262997
Read your tire temps..they will tell you everything. Try to get them as even as possible on temps and you will be close. This will change from heats to feature time also.

jammin

flyin41
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 5
posted October 18, 2001 10:36 PM
My right rear tire is always much warmer than my left tire is so what should I do to correct this?

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 5060
posted October 18, 2001 10:41 PM UIN: 16262997
Add cross to the car....your wedge percentage should be higher.


jammin

6x
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 24
posted October 27, 2001 10:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jammin:
Add cross to the car....your wedge percentage should be higher.


jammin


jammin, I have run as high as 225# heavy in the left rear and my right rear still comes in hotter, what is to much left?

tmtrigg4
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47
posted October 27, 2001 04:01 PM
The tire temp deal is not always the answer for tuning. Most drivers compensate for what the car is doing and adjust their driving style. There have been several times that our car is super tight and the RR comes in hotter because of using lots of rear brake and sliding the car into the turn. We loosened the car and the temps come back. It is crytical that the driver understands that he can make a tight car turn but the car is much faster when it is freed up. Most guys cars are too tight and think they are loose. Just a thought before guys start tightening an already tight car going by tire temps alone.

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 5060
posted October 27, 2001 04:41 PM UIN: 16262997
I have just noticed that the closer my temps are that the car handles better, and that we generally are really loose when we have a really hot right rear. As far as a car being free, it is all based on driver preference and how the driver feels the car should be. A tighter car will have more bite, but you still have to be able to turn it. A car can be extremely tight and have too much right rear in it going in that will cause the heat problems you are stating in the rr. This could be the problem that you stated.

jammin

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited October 27, 2001).]

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 309
posted October 28, 2001 12:59 PM
i am having that problem...my car is sooo tight it will simply not get into the turn...i tried making a brake adjustment the thing waz froze up...anyway i got it to move back in the pits and added rear brake to it..still wouldnt get into the turn...my rr tire gows about 4 pounds more than my left...seems like the first laps are ok with low pressure but as the tire builds it gets worse..im running 13psi in the rr and my car has awsome forward bite once i get it pointed the right way...i dont want to lose that!!! stagger??? i dont have any right now..car gets some roll steer. should i put my bleeder back in rr..(took it out cause it leaked one night and i had a flat in the staging lanes)...the cars just a simple 2 link with a pull bar...and j-bar. any help would be appreciated..

PEDDLER
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 227
posted October 28, 2001 06:08 PM
Stagger gets you IN,,,Wedge gets you OUT.
and put your bleeder back in. try 1 in stagger.

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 5060
posted October 28, 2001 08:36 PM UIN: 16262997
What do you do to your car when you add stagger? Look at your scales....you actually take wedge out of the car. It is more of a weight distribution factor than a travel factor of the tire. That is why a lot of people think reverse stagger helps their car, and in a lot of cases it will because you have just increased the wedge in your car....not so much the travel factor.


jammin

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited October 28, 2001).]

spde
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 63
posted October 28, 2001 10:06 PM
I run about 150#'s of wedge on our dry slick track, it has very little bank. also i have about 59.5% rear weight. we run 100% rear brake I dont have a gauge on this car but i never adjust the brakes. i usually start about 1 pound more air in the left side.

wfoondirt
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 242
posted October 29, 2001 09:01 AM
I aggree with jammin that adding stagger with all else remaining the same will decrease cross. Reducing cross will tighten a car on entry if the car is slowed mainly with the rear wheels. If you add stagger then add cross back with the weight jacks you will not significatly change entry. Stagger does very little at any point where the wheels are sliding, where stagger will make a difference is in steady state cornering, typically on dirt this is in the middle of the corner. I also aggree that you can't base you adjustments solely on tire temps, like was posted earlier a good driver will compensate for an ill handling car. If a car is too tight on entry the driver will have to "pitch" the car in to compensate for the push, in doing this they will abuse the rr tire and thus show more temp in that tire. So the key to making proper adjustments is to take into consideration driver input and crew observations along with tire temps/shock travel etc.

juniorfan
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 11
posted October 29, 2001 06:39 PM
I've run as much as 300# of wedge and been ok.

tls88mod
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 29, 2001 09:04 PM
Does anybody watch shock travel?

juniorfan
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 11
posted October 29, 2001 09:39 PM
Of course we do, but what does that have to do with wedge?

tls88mod
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 29, 2001 09:55 PM
Not a darn thing, just wondering if anybody watches it.

tmtrigg4
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47
posted October 30, 2001 10:26 AM
The tracks that we race at have exits and entrances that are rough and you drive over or off banking to return to the pits. This has always made me question the validity of shock travel. This also has nothing to do with wedge.

We have run very high wedge this year, at times as much as 250#. It takes alot of roll steer to make this work. It is fast but it is not always smooth.

bkap
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 61
posted October 30, 2001 01:35 PM
Something to consider for those taking tire temperatures on dirt: it's often difficult to find dry ground to drive on while returning to the pits and many tracks don't have an area to stop and check. If you run through a muddy area the tires will be cooled, thus giving you a false reading. One track I run waters the pits so much during the night that I don't think you can get an accurate reading, even after the main. I'm not saying it's not worth the effort but beware of the potential problems.

Another good way to keep track of traction is by keeping tire pressure records (although staying away from mud before a reading applies here too). I'd think working toward equal pressure growth is more critical than trying to get all the pressures equal. I used to tune a road racing sedan with equal tire pressures but there you're starting out with pretty even weight distribution and the loads are generally more balanced, what with all the left and right turns. Our dirt car works pretty well and the final pressures don't ever equal. We're running about 150# LR with 12# right side, 8# left side and around 59% rear. Of course, as we get more dialed in, my attitudes on this could change.

tagteam racing
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted October 30, 2001 06:08 PM
With a stop and go track, how much is too much wedge?? On a dry slick track?

tmtrigg4
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47
posted October 30, 2001 10:46 PM
I am not sure that there is a sure fire answer for your question. It boils down to driver preferance and how the car responds. I like alot of wedge because it gives the car natural bite. Some guys don't like a tight car and would throw rocks at the high wedge deal. It can be difficult to drive and takes different thoughts to tune but it is fast if you can get comfortable driving it.
This question in broad terms is like the chicken and the egg deal. You have to find what is best for you and your situation. I don't like to get over 275# of LR, makes the car wheelie bad on a track with bite. Good Luck.

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