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iaracer
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 59
posted January 04, 2001 07:06 PM
Does anyone out there want to share the current thoughts/ideas about front end geometry and set-up. I purchased this car used and bare. All thoughts, ideas appreciated.

[This message has been edited by iaracer (edited January 04, 2001).]

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted January 04, 2001 07:28 PM
This is to get some discussion going. I'm not be critical of you, so don't take any thing posted here personally. You wanted thoughts and that's what I will give MY thoughts.
Why the X in the front of the frame? the straight tube going from frame rail to frame rail should be plenty already, the diagonal you welded in should be going from the the tube coming down to the other side to the same tube coming down. This would help keep flex out of the front end, and also keep the horns from being bent upward in a small crash. but you have used over kill between the frame horns one way and nothing the other.
Also I see the foot box bar you welded in you didn't remove the panel to weld behind. This needs to be done for this box to save your legs in a crash.
I'm interested in know what front clip and lower A-frames you have there?

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted January 04, 2001 08:23 PM
Let me just say this about that, if you were to race where I do you would be glad you had the X brace between the frame horns... I would just guess that this is a 66 chevelle frame with pinto spindles. Thats what my car has and the frame horns and lowers look very similar. I dont know what I would change about the geometry it looks good to me. One thing I do notice is how close the shock is to the top a-frame. I know its probably going to have more clearance when its at ride height though. Im starting to see cars with the shocks mounted inside the front like in front of the radiator. There are tubes that form a tri-pod on the top a-frame that the shock hooks to and its like a relay, you have probably seen this. Only drawback is uppers are either more expensive to buy or harder to make if you make your own. I am considering doing this to my car, cause' im tired of my new shock getting all banged up when the supension moves a little more than normal. These are just some of my thoughts. Car looks good. If I had enough sense to do it I would try to send some pics of my car, I got scanner but computer says power is not on... heck you cant turn the thing off once its plugged in!!! I dont know..

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted January 05, 2001 10:07 AM
Mod racer #93, I see they are Pinto spindles, That's why I didn't ask about them. One pic gives the impression the lower A's are straight and flat, then another pic shows the lower looking curved and short, with a deep spring pocket. That is why I asked about them and the front clip.....Just wondering. The point you make about the front shock being close to the upper A frame, go back and look at the pics again and you will see that on the top of the shock it's not in the mount right, it's bolted in front of the mount and the lower A has no mount yet so it's just hanging there............
As for the front of the car being Xed and how, the tubes going up off the front of the frame horn along with the frame horns themselves form a triangle and when you put all your bracing on one side of the triangle you will never make this as strong as if you put the straight tube on one side of the triangle and the X on the other........In this car what is going to keep the horns from twisting is a crash? NOTHING, If you took that X and it to the tubes coming down to the frame horns you get the best of both ways frontal and twisting. I'm not saying it shouldn't have a X up there, just if it was placed different it would be better for the driver and the owner. and weight would be the same. you could still add another X the other way too ..........but you get the front so heavy......
I'm not being critical of anyone or any thing, I'm giving my thoughts and the reasons for my thoughts I'm always open to discus my thoughts, But will argue with no one and put downs don't help any one either..
......Jeff

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted January 05, 2001 10:12 AM
Jammin, the first pic in this set won't pop-up either. I see this is a frontal pic of the car, if you could re-load this so it can open properly this may help us crash test dummies see what we are talking about.
THANKS jeff

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 05, 2001 10:41 AM UIN: 16262997
Refresh it Jeff....see if it comes up then...I am seeing it now.

jammin

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted January 05, 2001 04:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jammin:
Refresh it Jeff....see if it comes up then...I am seeing it now.

jammin



Can every one out there get the first pic to open to the large size? Or is this just me and my computer?
Jammin, all the others open just fine for me, the movies open, load and run fine too. I just have the problem with that one pic, I did try my refresh button, It still stinks in here, It's no fresher now then before I past wind...............Maybe I don't understand these things?
Thanks ,,,,,,,Jeff

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 05, 2001 06:55 PM UIN: 16262997
Try this.......right click on the picture that isnt showing up..then click on show picture....tell me what it does.

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted January 05, 2001 07:29 PM
Jammin, the first pic doesnt work on mine either I tried the refresh and then the right click. Show picture is there but its not highlighted so it wont click. What if I click open link?

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 05, 2001 08:27 PM UIN: 16262997
Netscape or IE?

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 05, 2001 08:37 PM UIN: 16262997
Nevermind...I see the problem.......fixed....thanks for letting me know.

Sorry.

jammin

iaracer
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 59
posted January 05, 2001 09:24 PM
The stub is 66 Chevelle, pinto spindles,64-67 Chevelle lowers and 2ed design howe uppers. The shocks haven't hit yet... The uppers were located by previous owner. The left upper develops a twist after ten or so laps, the outside bends downward at the balljoint plate. Have found no binding and nothing is hitting. It bends and then stays put. One driver with many years of experience said "I guess that's where it wants to be" I believe it may not be lined up properly. I am considering a different style upper with replaceable components. The welding at the foot box has been corrected. I am open to any and all suggestions. I will be at the chassis clinic in KC.

Thanks, Ronnie

4ord
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 34
posted January 05, 2001 11:36 PM
Did you check bump travel on the ball joint on left side? Make sure ball joint isn't running out of travel with 2-3 inches of bump. I'm running same stub with Pinto spindles, if you have any other questions... let me know.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted January 06, 2001 12:09 AM
I wish someone in my garage would work as hard as you have on this car.......All we manage to do is wash the mud off in the winter. We don't have time to take car of that once racing starts...........LOL
I hope you under stand what I was saying about how the front X was welded in the front of the car, Just that if it went from the tubes coming down the front would be stronger for the same weight.......that's all.,I wasn't criticizing the way this was done only pointing out things that may help.
The only thing that bends the upper A-frame is if the ball joint runs out of travel, or you hit some thing.......things to check for are shock travel......shock hitting the A-frame on compression.......ball joint running out of travel.....too much angle on the upper A-frames

But the thing I see in the pics that would bend the upper A-frames?????? are these the same mounts that were on the car last year??
If they are look at the distance from the center of the Bolt to the farthest corner of the mount ..........that rear mount on the right side of the car is the worst, for clearance.......what is going on, is that as the A-frame moves up in bump the hiem at the end of the tube is hitting the mount stopping A-frame travel but the force of the car rolling over on the right front keeps going down bending the A-frame upward at the ball joint...... After going back and re-reading what you wrote I see where you said left side......either way, I still believe this is what is happening just on the other side....as the A-frame moves up the hiem at the end is hitting the square plate that they bolt to, this is why racing mounts you buy all are rounded off around the bolt hole, to keep clearance for travel ......PLEASE POST A REPLY TO MY THOUGHTS............Jeff

PS. also thanks to you Jammin we were able to see this problem and help this man get it corrected. Thanks for fixing the pic, that's the one that helped me out here.......

[This message has been edited by awkwardjeff (edited January 06, 2001).]

iaracer
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 59
posted January 06, 2001 09:29 PM
I too thank you Jammin, this is a great way to learn... answers to todays thoughts. The question about the ball joint from 4ord is something I will check next week when I get to the shop. Very good point. I did check the travel when I installed the front components last year, without the spring in and everything was ok. I did not have the rotor on when I checked it... I wonder if I didn't get enough clearance in that area?
The square corners on the upper mounts were corrected after the first a-frame bent,jamb nuts were close but no evidence of rubbing. Shocks are getting 2 1/2 - 3" of travel and no evidence of bottoming out. If I decide to install different uppers what is the best way to set them up properly? 4ord what type are you running? At ride height what are the angle's of the upper arms?

Thanks again for all the help... Ronnie

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 06, 2001 10:09 PM UIN: 16262997
I thought this might be a way to put a picture with the actual posts...I think this might be a good scenario for people who do need help, it will give a complete picture...

I would also like to get several different bare chassis pics on here to look at to compare them. I think this would be a great way to get the chassis guys out here to talk about their stuff.

Your welcome guys, I am glad we are getting some use out of this forum. Let me know if you need any other info posted.

jammin

4ord
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 34
posted January 06, 2001 10:34 PM
Ronnie,
The uppers I'm running are "homemade", as is the chassis. They appear to be similar to yours. As Jeff mentioned, you might have too much angle on your uppers [my mounting points are at least 1 inch higher than yours]. The other differences I see is that my uppers are mounted at the same angle as the lowers. We did this to reduce caster changes as the wheel goes through bump and rebound. I've heard many pro's & con's on this type versus other types of mounting uppers, but for my driving style I prefer this way. One other thing I would suggest, is to take off the rubber boots on your ball joints. It will make it much easier to inspect them and if you give them a shot or two of grease before race night it will push out dirt, water, etc. If I knew a lot more about these darn computers, I would try to put a picture on here.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted January 06, 2001 11:06 PM
The rotor maybe hitting the lower A-frame on the end near the ball-joint causing the bind that would bend the upper downward......
I've seen this in the past but it's been a long time and I've forgotten a lot of what I thought I knew..........LOL
Jeff

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