Visit The Dirt Forum for More Information

Author Topic:   Motor Claim??
dirtTurd
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted July 08, 2001 06:34 PM
When is it right to claim. Some tracks do tend to be more motor worthey. Like big 3/8 dirt track with short turns. I am not pro or con just like some imput.

bbracer17
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 168
posted July 08, 2001 09:00 PM
I think the only time a claim might be needed is for a tacky track with one car that runs away with the race week after week. A one time dominant win doesn't mean that a motor should be claimed. I'm always amazed that motors get claimed on dry slick tracks. If your only running 1/2 to 3/4 throttle how could anybody think that is the motor winning the race.

jlfastride
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted July 08, 2001 10:03 PM
it's like that in nw ohio especially in the stockcars at limaland a guy shows up draw a good number finished 4th in heat race redraws outside front row for the a and holds everyone off for 15 laps. all on a skating rink of a track with no cushion whatsoever. people start threatening with a claim. bs i say.

dirtTurd
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted July 08, 2001 10:32 PM
I agree that is not right to claim for dryslick track. Were i am this guy comes down every time that there is lotta of money and blows everyone away. Not by 2 or 3 car lenght but hole staight away. No joke. Yes he has got one awesome of a car but where does claiming start? He is not the only one with a great car. Mind you that 24 cars stared the race and there were 5 laps til the finish then a caution came out and he pull away that much. The man is very nice but everyone is looked down when there is a claim. I don't want the mans motor just want him not to spend 8000.00 on his. Darned if you do and darned if you don't.

[This message has been edited by dirtTurd (edited July 08, 2001).]

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted July 09, 2001 01:14 AM
I won't answer the question directly.....I will ask everyone out there a few more questions.
If I ran a 14 inch late model tire on my modified where the rules only allow 8 inch tires would your complain to the track officals?
If I bolted a wing on top this same car would you complain to the same officals?
How about if I just took a sprint car and told you I'm running in the modified class tonight.....when I came out to line up on the side of you, would you stop on the track and complain?
The claim is PART of the rule book, the only problem is NOBODY enforces this CLAIM RULE...
If you would enforce the tire rule if you caught me cheating, if you would enforce the wing rule, or the chassis suspension rules, then by all meens enforce the CLAIM rule.
Don't feel bad about buying a NICE guy's $8000 motor for $300-$400 dollars......he read the rule book before he built his motor, He is laughing at you behind your back.
racers complain the TRACK isn't doing their job enforcing the rules.......well the claim is the one rule the drivers can enforce. I have been to tracks where if there is a claim the track will find something, anything they can, wrong with the person doing the claim........your stickers aren't on in the right order, your drive shaft isn't white anymore......it's red from the clay at the end of the night.....
Do I like the claim.......NO, but this is the rules we all choose to race under...if you don't like the thought of giving away your motor run with the WoO or STARS....there is a class out there for unlimited funds..........go run that class.

BILLY BOB
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 81
posted July 09, 2001 08:47 AM
But guess what jeff. The track can do nothing about a claim under item p of the claim rules in the imca book. It states that a "disqualification will not effect a legal claim." If they find a guy illegal it makes no difference, the racetrack should have teched them before the race. The claiming driver may not get any points or money, but he still gets the motor.

modracr41
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 12
posted July 09, 2001 10:51 AM

I agree with Jeff. I don't like the claim, but when you get a guy that pulls the motor out of his late model and drops it in his mod chassis to run a big $ race, the claim is the one way that the drivers can level the playing field. I have said all along that imca put the claim rule in the book was to keep this from happening and if no one enforces it, it doesn't do any good.
One of the main reasons that people leave our class and quit racing altogether is because more and more people feel that it costs too much to be competitive. If more people would utilize the claim, maybe we could attract more people and get the car #s up. That's my take and........see ya at the track.

2FAST4U
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted July 09, 2001 03:54 PM
the claim rule needes to be inforced if people would have took advantage of it years ago the class wouldn't be so expensive now thats why we need to inforce it now

bbracer17
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 168
posted July 09, 2001 08:01 PM
It sounds like everyone agrees.

dirtTurd
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted July 09, 2001 09:36 PM
Thanks guys for the imput. I was hoping that i was not alone. We will see how this weekend goes. I will not claim if it is a close race and someone has a chance to catch the guy but if he leaves everyone like the past couple of races. Either we will finish one spot higher or have a different motor.

jlfastride
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted July 09, 2001 10:45 PM
here's my thought's and only my thought i don't run imca but ump instead now i haven't seen a claim in over 5 years myself or heard of one that's not to say it hasn't happened, however it's very uncommon. i know all our motors cost more than they would need to, and some nights we all get smoked by a iron head solid lift motor, but my experience has been this my roller aluminum head,wiseco piston,eagle rod motor is 4 years old and on second set of rings. it's been wound tight several times by different things happening and is still together and running plenty strong to win remember we run 8 inch tires too.sure initial cost is more but like i said no engine faliures in 4 years is worth quite a bit too. seems there is 2 ways to save money racing if you ask me cause you sure as hall can't make money racing locally. thanks jl carry on gentlemen

BILLY BOB
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 81
posted July 13, 2001 02:28 PM
Good point sir, but you choose to run ump therefore go ahead. Personally I choose to run IMCA, put together 800 dollar long blocks and see how hard and for how long I can run them. I get used and half blown up parts from the dumpsters at the local engine shops. The IMCA tire on a dry track is the greatest thing in the world. An 800 buck motor runs with a 5000 dollar motor and on tacky an 800 dollar motor claims a 5000 dollar motor. Gotta love it. When it comes down to it, it's a game played by grown men. The claim game.

millerlt3
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22
posted July 14, 2001 11:44 AM
I've been racing IMCA now for 8 years, and during that period of time of time I have been claimed 2 times. I dont build a $5000 motor, I try to keep my engine cost below $1200 which I think is probably less than what most of my competetors are spending. But I still was not happy either time I was claimed! I personally have never claimed any one but thats not to say I wouldnt, because thats what the claim rule is there for, If you feel that someone clearly has an unfair advantage and is dominating week after week because they have UNWISELY put a $5000 or $6000 motor in a car that they know can be bought for penny's on the dollar that they spent then by all means they need to be CLAIMED! The rule was put there to keep that kind of thing from happening. And dont even start to feel bad about it because these guy know what they were getting into when they loaded it to take it to the track. Nice guy or not it sounds like you need to claim him because either he is going to continue to dominate, or someone else will take advantage of a rule that was put there for a reason.

Steph
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 60
posted July 16, 2001 09:47 AM UIN: 6762482
I have a question....

UMP has a claim rule. IMCA has a claim rule.

Why are there claims happening in IMCA and not UMP? Has anyone ever heard of a UMP claim?

Just curious.

------------------
--Steph--

4ord
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 34
posted July 16, 2001 10:17 AM
Steph,
EXCHANGE Why give up what you know you have for an unknown? Everyone up here that makes the feature has a pretty darn good motor.

bigdracing74
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 9
posted July 16, 2001 01:57 PM UIN: 97888000
I have a question for you all, is the claim rule a good rule to use to get back at someone so you don't wreck your car and there car on the track, and would also like to know if the claim rule is justifed, if you the driver is cheating?


rjs
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 38
posted July 16, 2001 07:27 PM
The claim rule does help to police motors to an extent. Claiming to me is like talking about a guy's momma, you never are sure how he will react. To claim if someone is cheating... it depends on what you think he is doing that is illegal. Do what you think is right, you have to live with the decisions you make. I've been on both sides of that fence, some nights I wished someone would claim me, most of the time I pray they don't. We race UMP now because of the exchange, nothing makes you feel worse than bringing your car home light & with parts in boxes.

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted July 16, 2001 07:38 PM
i bet just about every motor claimed is a grudge claim...just cause someone else can afford better...lets take it. or ... well he beat me 3 weeks in a row.. he's must have a big motor... 99.9 percent of the time it's NOT the motor that wins the race...it's that person behind the steering wheel, and his or her ability to control the uncontrolable. i dont have a big money motor.. but i prolly have over 4 grand in it...im with the one guy who said that he had good stuff in his motor and hasnt had an engine prob in a long time..i myself dont need or want to be worried about how im gonna come up with a motor for next week..i say build one 'good' one with 'good' stuff, then i can focus on my chassis setup and driving skills..because i have a reliable motor...i guess you could say i dont like claim...just my opinions.

rjs
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 38
posted July 16, 2001 09:50 PM
The one claim I made was for a motor that had been claimed the night before. He claimed it because it was big then put it in his car and promptly kicked our butts. He really couldn't get mad he made money with it and won a race so losing it so soon didn't hurt as much. By the way we've lost 5 and claimed two, one being the one mentioned above. It's just part of the game, but UMP adds that one little word that makes me feel better........exchange!

mike10az
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 1
posted July 18, 2001 06:15 PM
we have a father and son combination here who run 1 and 2 whenever it gets tacky 20 lap race they lead 18 and win by half a lap junior runs off the track before the white flag drops to 6th pappy gets claimed they grunt and moan and cry about they were just hooked up and everybody is a soar loser it turns out he paid 6 for the motor yet the race paid 500 and the claim paid 500 so he loses 5 in the deal why pay that much if you know its going to get claimed at least be ready to get claimed and be willing to let the motor go

junior had won last three races until past week went dry slick and the guy that won was smooth as glass no motor just smooth he finished second the week before with a GAS motor

we quit racing sprints because no money is to be made in racing and that was to much to be losing we have a $20,000 motor but we aren't going to drop it in and blow everyone away because we know we will get claimed

if the track is tacky or rubber gets put down and somebody can drive away in the straight aways thats when you claim not when it goes dry slick cause its petal pedal pedal

also promoters need to acknowledge claims if they want the races to be competitive

have fun in harris cars

Pickles
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 32
posted July 20, 2001 12:29 PM
I just think the claim should be for a reasonable amount. A guy shouldn't go in the hole when he only had a $1500.00 / $2500.00 engine. Some guys have more time and can build engines for less than others. But a decent engine is going to cost in the $2000.00 range. (At least) IMCA acknowldged this to a degree when they raised the claim from $300 to $500 but they are still out of touch with a reasonable cost for an engine. $300 was ok 25 years ago...but when a weeks groceries cost $100+, depending on the size of the family, the claim should be in the $2500 range. My 5 cents worth. (used to be 2 cents.)

bbracer17
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 168
posted July 20, 2001 10:29 PM
I don't think the claim would work if it was $2500. The claim isn't so a guy can make his money back on his engine it is to try to keep the feild close and competetive. It seems to work fairly well. It's not perfect but it is easier and cheaper than having teardowns after the feature to make sure your motor follows a rule book.

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted July 21, 2001 12:59 PM
can someone fill me in on the rule for imca..can anybody that 'finishes' the race claim the winner.. or does he have to be on the same lap..or does he have to be in the top 5...also does the person doing the claiming have to give his motor to the person he claims..i just dont think its right to leave a guy hanging without some kind of motor to get back next week..at least if he gets the claimer's motor he will have something..i mean if he gets claimed and has to build another "1500" to "2500" dollar motor in wich you cant build a decent motor for less than that..and expect it to stay together..i mean c'mon..add that up everytime he gets claimed.. and before you know it he has MORE money in engines than he would have had if he'd just built ONE good engine at the first of the season...so to me i dont think the organization is saving anybody any money...by doing this..(my 5 cents also) inflation....lol.

bbracer17
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 168
posted July 21, 2001 02:24 PM
Anybody that finishes on the same lap as the fourth place car can claim anyone in the top four positions. If I were to haved claimed twice then the next two times I wanted to claim the person being claimed can opt for an exchange. By the way I have never claimed. We run very dryslick tracks so I haven't seen a need for it.

Pickles
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 32
posted July 23, 2001 07:09 PM
Curious,has there ever been a list of the high dollar parts found in claimed engines?

KK17
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 75
posted July 24, 2001 06:12 PM
Interesting question....I have often been preplexed by the claimer motor...I know my comments are going to catch some heat but here they are...Why can't I run a roller cam or aluminum heads or even 14 deg steel heads?..seriously why can't I build what I want and take the chance of getting claimed..right now were actually running a spec claimer...You can't do this or that and you can only run this, blablabla!!!!What the **** is the difference as long as somebody can take it for little to nothing or exchange....I know I would be leary about claiming somebody's motor that when new might have been a $1500-13 night claimer which could be on its 17th night..but I wouldn't think twice if I saw aluminum or some excotic parts...It's not a question of who can build the most expensive claimer but I believe that we've got enough rules already that don't work and the claimer is one of them...I race WISSOTA where we have a choice of a claim engine or a smaller spec engine(362ci) which is not claimable...the only advantage a spec has is roller rockers...I run a spec and would never go back to a claimer..I spent 2 1/2 times what I used to spend on a claimer and now am on my 4th season with no problems...we don't see to many claims, but when we do you usually don't see the claimee going from the back of the pack to the front...I know I might not have gotten my point across clearly as I can argue verbally better than I type, but this should be a primer for interesting conversation....

Hammer 1
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 48
posted July 24, 2001 11:09 PM
CLAIM???what's that??? Here on the east coast that word isn't in anyone's vocabulary. Two weeks ago lost a race to a new SB2 motor.....but the guy did make 350 bucks.

RangeRover
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 37
posted July 27, 2001 06:47 PM
I don't run a mod, but every race I hear my buddies cry about how they got spanked by an $8,000 monster motor. "So, claim it!" I tell 'em, but then they get quiet. They're afraid of being the track "jerks". Then what good is the claim rule for? I tease them that they're running an outlaw class because they choose to. "Refinance your house, run a street stock, keep eating dust, or...claim his a**!" I say. There's alway a choice.
Just my opinion, now.

Hammer 1
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 48
posted July 27, 2001 08:20 PM
That's just the problem. You DON'T run a modified. The claim is a double edge sword. You claim the right person's motor and the next week you wind up with a junked race car. Now what do you have,a real nice motor and nothing to bolt it into. We played the claim game when I ran 4 cylinder cars and I can speak from experience, 99% of all claims were done for spite. I once got claimed by a guy with a brand new Esslinger and he figured if he got beat I must really have something big. It wasn't the case, he claimed my motor, but he did eventually get paid back in spades. I'd much rather see a track or series come up with a set of motor rules and then TECH them, not the wave of the magic flashlight, check the scales and wave you through.

bbracer17
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 168
posted July 27, 2001 09:54 PM
I wouldn't mind being teched by a quality tech man with a P&G gauge to check displacement, a whistler to checked compression ratio and a borescope to look at the valves but what track has all this. I don't like having my heads pulled off of my hot motor or my oil pan pulled out in the dirt. The claim isn't perfect but how many times have you seen the tech man change rules in the tech area after a race. The claim doesn't change, it was in the rules when you went to race. I wish everyone followed the rules as well as I do then we wouldn't need a claim or even tech men.

Hammer 1
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 48
posted July 28, 2001 11:42 AM
Amen to people following the rules, however you know as well as I do, that from go-karts to Winston cup cars there are those who bend the rules and those who break them. On the east coast the motor problem is out of hand. Like I said in a previous post, got beat several weeks ago by an SB2. I"m not cry'n, it just makes your job a little tougher. I only lost by 3' so I really don't think that new motor made all the difference. They run a division around here called super sportsman. They are basically 358 sprint cars on a 2x3frame, with clutches and carbs. The rules have basically gone unchanged for 20 years and every week they get between 50 and 60 cars. The top 3 KNOW they're going to the barn and the winner draws a pill to send someone else in the field to tech also. The track is committed to teching cars and they have the right people with the right equipment. They pump them and check rods and cranks via an inspection hole in the oil pan. People will still try to get around the rules and they do get caught. However, it's not very often and the punishment is severe. My problem is that instead of the tracks doing their jobs and teching cars, they get lazy and let the racers do it for them via the claim rule. Racers are basically dumb people and accept this. Sounds pretty good to let the fox guard the hen house. The track steers clear of one mad racer vs. another mad racer and simply states"oh well, the claim is in the rules." One thing the tracks don't see...yet... is that they're shooting themselves in the foot. There are a whole bunch of racers who will spend 2,3,4,5k on a motor to go racing but the number starts to dwindle when everybody has got to belly up to the bar and spend 8,9,10k on a motor to run for 350 bucks.

CUSTOMPERFORMANCE
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 213
posted July 29, 2001 01:24 AM
YOU NAILED IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD HAMMER, THIS WOULD BE TRUE FOR ALMOST ANY SANCTION, THEY ALL HAVE DONE THIS OR HAVE CLASSES THAT DUE

Back to the Archives