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Author Topic:   6 Link vs 4 Link
dirtracer14
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 128
posted January 14, 2001 04:16 PM UIN: 23443678
Looking to buy a new car and not sure what type to look for. I have only raced 3 link befor. I have seen 4 links that were fast and only seen a 6 link 1 time not sure if he had right setup (car hopped off turns). Any pros and cons whould be great, Looking more at the 6 link. Thanks.

bbracer17
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 168
posted January 14, 2001 04:59 PM
I've only seen one 6 link before and it seems to run well. It was a D&M car, I sure you could call them and get any info you wanted. Thats to many links for me to figure out.

RICH
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 4
posted January 14, 2001 05:58 PM
i think some may be confused with the 6 link. i think a 6 link is a 4 link with the other 2 links as brake floater bars. corerect me if i am wrong

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted January 14, 2001 06:08 PM
You aint justa kiddin, 3 links is enough to have to deal with why go to 6.???? I saw a guy with 6 link car he ran like a jackrabbit down the straight but when it came to the corner look out... Around here cars with simple springs on top of rearend a (OOOOOK, just got an insant message from some girl named, cant say on here) Anyway, springs on top, with pull bar and panhard bar behind rear are kickin it goood....

dirtracer14
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 128
posted January 14, 2001 08:24 PM UIN: 23443678
Well the one car i was looking at was a D&M and it didnt have brake floaters. I am sure that if i call them that they would tell me what i want to hear but i would like to get opinions from the people that have raced them or raced beside them.

Limited5
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 141
posted January 14, 2001 09:30 PM
6 Link? Geeeeeeeezzzzzzz, I just got these 4 links kinda figured out! Now there's 6? Are you sure you don't have double vision?

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted January 14, 2001 10:17 PM
I have raced beside a couple. Outran em most of the time. Their are so many variables to go wrong with that many links. You would always have to be right on with the setup according to track condition. Keep it simple, go 3-link(no eliminators) or 3-link(swing-arm). That's what rules all over here.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted January 14, 2001 10:23 PM
I'm interested in how six links hook to the rear end to locate the thing........
I got six if you include the pan bar and lift bar........BUT it sounds like you people are talking about some thing I've never seen ............just woundering how it would NOT bind up unless it was a 4 link with brake floaters or Z-link with floaters??

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted January 14, 2001 10:24 PM
I'm interested in how six links hook to the rear end to locate the thing........
I got six if you include the pan bar and lift bar........BUT it sounds like you people are talking about some thing I've never seen ............just woundering how it would NOT bind up unless it was a 4 link with brake floaters or Z-link with floaters??

GnarlyCar
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 96
posted January 15, 2001 12:44 AM
6 link is a 4-bar or z-link w/ floated brakes on both sides, with either a pullbar or liftbar. I ran one all last year that I built myself, with the 4-bar-lift-bar set-up. I got it working really well toward the end of the year, but it took me 25 or thirty shows to get it there, and that was before I even touched the brake floaters. The brake floaters aren't adding to any of the confusion, though.. they only affect the car under braking, while the 4-bar acts the same way with brakes floated or not. I started messing with the angles of the brake bars in the last 5 or 6 shows and found that the added adjustment to fine tune your car under braking was pretty handy. I wished I would have explored it earlier in the year so I could have learned more about it. I would suggest to anyone thinking about it to have a lot of patience, and have someone reliable to ask questions to. This thing could be stupid fast on some nights, but other nights I felt like I was running on street tires.

Back in '99, Ron Jones showed up at our track with one (a D&M, I think it was a 4-bar w/ a pullbar) for one of the big money specials, and while he didn't win that night, he was pretty impressive with it, running third after coming through the B-main. Don't know if that holds any water in here, but for what it's worth, he was fast that night.

My $.02,
Matt

team49
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 30
posted January 15, 2001 06:24 AM
A 6 bar car is not a4-link with floaters!.
Also the d&m car that ron jones drives is a true 6-bar +floaters if he has them.I have seen 6-bar cars run and there really good off the corner. The cars are about 2200lbs and you can set them up with just a tape measure. A friend of mine in tx has one. e-mail him and get his opinion. his e-mail is
NTxmod@aol.com His name is Jim. Well thats my to cents also!!!!!

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 15, 2001 10:36 AM UIN: 16262997
Do you have any drawings of this setup that you could/would send me....I would like to post it on our suspension page for viewing if possible.

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 15, 2001 02:23 PM UIN: 16262997
Does not matter....you can do it here..it's fine.

Strokin3
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 68
posted January 15, 2001 07:13 PM
If I understand this correctly the only
bracket I need to install is the one in
front of the fuel cell. At what elevation?

------------------
Artie Perilloux

GnarlyCar
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 96
posted January 16, 2001 12:12 AM
Well, gang, I stand corrected.. I have to admit that I never actually saw the car that Ron Jones drove that night and in retrospect, the person who described the 6 link to me probably got it second or third-hand himself. This is what we get for our part in the rumor mill.
Thanks, eagleii, for the clarification... Your description was quite easy to understand and made it quite clear as to how this thing works.

Incidentally, I had a brainstorm a few days ago regarding another alternative mount for a pullbar.. I'll start a new string for this one, and I hope I can describe my idea as clearly as eagleii did here.

Matt

WPP
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 46
posted January 17, 2001 08:04 AM
Quote me if i am wrong on this my at the present i have a 10-90 behind my rearend in front of my fuelcell.Do you put the shock damper on the bottom birdcage and angle it down from the birdcage and on the top bar angled up from the birdcage or does the upper bar or shock damper even go on the birdcage sorry for so many question but you guys have help me alot Thanks

Iowamod20
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 17, 2001 08:24 AM
Eagleii's post concerning how a 6-link works raised some questions with me.

His statement that the rearend has no where to go but down and tries to lift the chassis: Well, the rearend can't go down any farther than it already is, because the tires are already contacting the ground, so the chassis DOES lift. The car can't push down on itself any harder than it already does.

The only additional weight you gain on acceleration, is from rearward load transfer, which does increase(can be significant) rear tire loadings from your static scale settings. The two factors that affect this the most, are your CGH and wheel base.

Thanks.

wfoondirt
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 142
posted January 18, 2001 10:25 AM
so explain to me why this is better than a standard torque link setup. All your doing is creating anti-squat, the benifit of anti-squat is under power cgh is raised thus aiding in the fore/aft weight transfer. This can be accomplished with a much simpler/properly designed setup. If i am picturing your setup correctly, by using the lever on the pull-bar to lift the chassis, the force that normilaly acts on the tires through the springs is now being applied through a solid bar, which would create an erratic handling car on a rough track. You also say that this creates a 20-30% increase in downward force as opposed to a conventional system, its alot more than that because a conventional torque-link does not put a direct downward force on the rearend. The pursose of the torque-link is to create anti-squat or pro-squat. As mentioned earlier, raising the cgh aids in fore/aft weight transfer which aids in forward traction. Another concern i have is that if the torque link in mounted to the bottom of the "birdcage" the angle of the torque-link increases as torque in applied to the rear-end. This effect causes the amount of anti-squat to increase propotionally to the torque applied to the tires, ie. the more traction there is the more anti-squat created. This effect is normially opposite of what is required on most dirt cars. Idealy you want anti-squat to increase inversely-proportionally to the torque applied, or basically anti-squat decreases as more torque is apllied. I'm not triing to kncok your setup, because i am always open to new ideas, just concerned about the physics behind the theory and looking for a little more clarification.

[This message has been edited by wfoondirt (edited January 18, 2001).]

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 18, 2001 10:34 AM UIN: 16262997
The rear links are using the angle to make a solid connection to the ground...takes the some of the spring rate out of the scenario. Sort of like a panhard bar to the right rear when your in the turns.

right?

wfoondirt
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 142
posted January 18, 2001 12:29 PM
the panard bar doesnt directly load the rr significantly, it does locate the roll center which effects the loading of the rr due to changes in roll. this is unless the panard bar is at a steep angle say 15-20 degrees then there is somewhat of a downward force applied to the rr, but this also increases what alot of racers call the pendulum effect, where the rear end moves significantly laterally under roll. the way i understand jerry's post there is essentially a solid link pushing directly down on the rear end to lift the body. Am also curious about the statement about a felt 8-12% increase in rear percentage, what is that figure based on? Are you figuring in fore/aft weight transfer? I don't have all your figures to do my own math, just lookin for a few more specifics.

wfoondirt
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 142
posted January 19, 2001 07:41 AM
like i said, i'm not doubting that it "works", just wondering about the physics behind some of the figures you claimed and how they differ from a standard torque-link setup. I worked on this on autocad last night and was able to come up with similar results with a std. setup, one interesting side-effect it the instant center movement though roll, it appears as if greater control of the ic is possible with this concept, which is something i had not thought of in my original analysis of this idea. If you want i can send you the drawings in made in autocad to see if i'm close on my design. Its an intriguing design and has peaked my interest.

[This message has been edited by wfoondirt (edited January 19, 2001).]

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 19, 2001 10:12 AM UIN: 16262997
send those cad drawings to me and I will post them on the suspension forum.

jammin

wfoondirt
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 142
posted January 19, 2001 11:21 AM
Jammin, i will do that asap, i don't have them here at work so i will get them sent over the weekend.

Iowamod20
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted January 19, 2001 01:26 PM
Any effect that jacks the rear end up only adds load transfer by raising the CGH. Besides wgt. transfer and aerodynamic downforce, there is no other additional wgt. on the rear tires in acceleration, "felt" or otherwise. On the track, the front of any car rises in forward acceleration. How much it rises has nothing to do with the the rear suspension.

This being said, Eagleii, has essentialy a watts linkage or Z-link replacing a single link. This has the advantage of creating a different pattern of upper link (or virtual single upper link) angle change as the suspension moves. This can be designed to have an infinite length single link that will have constant virtual link angles at all ride heights and roll angles. With a convential setup, anti-squat changes with the pull bar angle changes as the suspension moves in bump and rebound.

Replacing the upper link with a fulcrum system is not a bad idea, in fact it has some very good merits. I am sure Eagle Racecars are very good, and they work well because Jerry knows his cars and his suspension and how to tune it.

Thanks. I appreciate everyones input on this subject. I was not aware of how a 6-link, fulcrum, etc. systems were constructed and used. I may try this system on one of my cars in the near future.

Thanks again: Iowamod20

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted January 19, 2001 09:27 PM
Im not trying to be a smart here, I have read these post over and over and have possibly figured out how it works. Math and physics type stuff were not my best subjects in school. I just dont see the need for all this. Their are cars here that have coil springs on top of the rear end and a long spring pull bar, with optional panhard mounting that can raise the back of their car as high as you want it to go (they use 16inch long coil springs in the rear) under acceleration at any given time with the right combo. They can carry the left front all the way down the strait if they choose. The cars are light, simple and fast. Right now I cant afford to purchase one of their cars so I designed my rear setup like theirs.
p.s. Posting the drawings and picures would be a great help for me in understanding how this works, for I am sure it is not as complicated as it sounds. I was always one to skip the article lets look at the pictures...lol

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 20, 2001 08:15 AM UIN: 16262997
Everyone on here wants to know how it works, eagle...posting the pics, cad drawings etc could help everyone understand the concept of the suspension, isnt that what we were trying to do here? No one wants to take anything away from anyone, just gain knowledge.


jammin

wfoondirt
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 142
posted January 20, 2001 09:43 AM
mr eagle, the purpose of this board is the sharing of information and ideas, that was the purpose of my replies to you, i assumed since you were so open in sharing your setup you would be more open to the discussion of the physics behind the concept, before i make any changes to a racecar i carefully analyze the effects mathematically and theoretically and was triing to save myself from having to do the design myself from scratch. the reason i posted to mr ortiz was not to take anything away from this post but my questions weren't being answered here and mr ortiz and i have kicked a similar idea around before and i knew he could answer my questions. I design and build my own personal racecars and am willing to share anything i know with anyone, there are no secrets in racing just alot of misinformation. I try not to get in ****ing matches on these forums cause that does none of us any good. Like i said in my previous posts you design is intreguing and has some merit, i'm sorry if you misunderstood my purpose and hope this post continues.

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted January 20, 2001 01:54 PM
It's me again...lol. I hope your copyright or patent info was not brought up because I said I had designed my rear suspension like the cars I was refering too. The rest of the car is no where near the same. I have only been RACING mods for 1 full season, but have seen a good array of rear susp. designs, some work good, others probably would, but their were other problems. Is it going to get to the point were we are all using wheel skirts, and back covers while in the pits. I hope not....???? Once at the track last year A guy had his bran new DW mod uloaded and had the skirts on the back...and it was like man give me a break....my buddies said it's just to play games with compitition....Just made me more determined to kick his a$$ on the track...
p.s. I didn't manage to kick his a$$ but I gave it one heck of a shot....lol

Strokin3
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 68
posted January 21, 2001 02:14 AM
ModRacer, I have put skirts on when I didn't
have anything to hide, just to be cute. Guess
what, everytime I pull stunts like that it seems like something goes wrong. So if you
want to look at my car at the track I have a
flashlight now to make sure they don't miss
nothing.

MikeBurnett
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 1
posted January 21, 2001 04:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Limited5:
6 Link? Geeeeeeeezzzzzzz, I just got these 4 links kinda figured out! Now there's 6? Are you sure you don't have double vision?

Limit - you got the 4 Link igured out. You may be getting some e-mails from me, this coming season. Just purchased a 4 link roller from my cousin and I have heard these 4 links can be difficult to sort out. The cousin purchase a procar.

Best in 2001.
Mike

wfoondirt
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 142
posted January 21, 2001 10:39 PM
ok, this is my last post on this topic.
Jammin, sorry but i'm not going to send the drawings of the 6-link setup to you. Seems a particular person has taken offense to my posts here and on another forum, by the way i did not start the topic on said forum only contributed to it.
Mr. Eagle,
If you dont want your "ideas stolen" save the sales pitch for the trade shows not tech forums.

dirtracer14
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 128
posted January 21, 2001 11:50 PM UIN: 23443678
Wow did not know that this would open a HUGE can of worms!! I did get a lot of differnt info from the post above. The 6 link that i was talking about was the one D&M sells if anyone has driven one or has any info for one that would be great,and thanks to all the post above!!!

eagleii
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 87
posted January 23, 2001 06:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jammin:
Everyone on here wants to know how it works, eagle...posting the pics, cad drawings etc could help everyone understand the concept of the suspension, isnt that what we were trying to do here? No one wants to take anything away from anyone, just gain knowledge.

jammin


Well Everybody,

No need to do that now. We got a set of CAD drawings at the Bloomington Sale Barn, this weekend. Amazing isn't it? I don't need to waste my time getting them out there, now, and I didn't even have to leave home or even work hard at it. It turns out that they were given to a friend of mine and others all the way up there in Illinois !!! Everybody line up and get your set of drawings, I'm sure it won't be hard to get technical support on it either.

Remember, it is a VERY small world out there and you never know who you might run into. Especially, when you least expect it.

Jammin',

This is not directed at you. I just used your quote, because it fit the situation so well. It illustrates that not everyone wants to "just gain knowkedge". You run the FINEST forum out here in cyberspace. You have no control over the integrity, or lack thereof, of anyone who posts here. Keep up the good work.


-----------------
EagleII

[This message has been edited by eagleii (edited January 23, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by eagleii (edited January 23, 2001).]

wfoondirt
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 142
posted January 23, 2001 10:08 AM
Gee, now i have to be a liar and post again on this topic
First of all let me apologize to jammin for having to clutter up this board with this.
Second, since eagle didnt direct his last post to anyone in particular i assume it was directed to me being that i was the one that offered my drawings on here. First of all just to clear things up, the drawings i did of "your" setup have not left my computer mainly because after working on it for a while i don't see a significant advanage in running it. So i don't know who you think i am, but i am not the person your friend got his drawings from. If you are insinuating that i am triing to profit from this you are sadly mistaken, my only interest in racing is as a hobby, i make much better money as an engineer than can be made in racing.
Finally i am curious as to why you posted on this forum, i see your registation date coincides with your first post on this topic. You posted knowing that this forum was public access then get upset when an interest is shown in the principle of the setup. My question is to you eagle is, what was your intention of your posts on here? Seems to me there are only two possible answers to that question. To try and promote your business or to share an idea openly with other racers.
If you really want to know who i am, or if you want to insult my integrity more feel free to email me directly and so this board does not get cluttered with this pointless bickering. I have nothing to hide, and will be happy to tell you exactly who i am if thats what it takes for you to stop attacking my integrity.

eagleii
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 87
posted January 23, 2001 12:35 PM
Wfoondirt,

Your assumptions are incorrect, sir as I would never accuse anyone of any thing without proof. I DO NOT know who was handing them out, yet. I am still investigating that. Had I known who it was, I would have said so and used his/her name.

If you think your integrity is on the line here, it is not from any accusation that I have made. When the copies of the drawings arrive here I am going to see if I can figure out who did them. If they are correct, I will say so, If they are not I will say that, too.

All I know is this. The drawings are supposed to exactly match my description and are being forwarded to me. There are two other copies that are supposed to arrive tomorrow or Thurs. One of these copies which was obtained, the person sending them recognized the person handing them out. I asked that his name be included with the copy of the drawings and not published on the internet or any forum. I would like to keep that part of it private.

I am sorry you think I am accusing you, because I am not. I am still offering this design FREE OF CHARGE, but I am only doing it privately. I feel that the chips will fall where they may. If it was not you then you have nothing to worry about. Your integrity is still in tact. I am certainaly not questioning it.

As you have noticed, I have removed all of my posts on the subject.

Jerry Guest

------------------
EagleII

wfoondirt
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 142
posted January 23, 2001 12:52 PM
thank you for clearing that up, sorry about the misunderstanding, hopefully this will be the end of this. I'm truely sorry you felt you had to remove your posts. I'm sure there are unscupulous people that read this board, but the way i look at it is that is doesnt matter what you have on your car its how well you understand it that makes the difference

team49
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 30
posted January 23, 2001 05:53 PM
I don't believe some of you people. Here a fellow racer with many years of knowledge has found something that works on his cars,he even offers to share this info for free and all I hear are the sounds of the non-believers or the people that try and disprove it with physics. Well not everything can be explained without knowing all the variables for example the helicopter,is not supposed to fly but it does. This "fulcrum" system that eagle was sharing was probably produced by trial and error not on some "cad system".I must not be the pesimist that ya'll are or eagle is just to nice a guy. Anyway hope that in the future some of you try an Idea before you decide why it will not work. Just unreal!!!!! Now thats my 2cents!

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted January 23, 2001 07:45 PM
Hey I got an IDEA. Its obviouse that you two are suffering from, ITS ALMOST RACING SEASON CANT WAIT ANY LONGER. What yall need to do is, get DTRSC...go to gamespy...download the patch...connect with a server...and get it on with some hard core online sprint car racing...or late models if you prefer...Works for me everynight till the wee hours...lol.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted January 23, 2001 08:29 PM
modracer93, PLEASE, give me the instructions and web address to down load the patch you talk about........I've got the game, and couldn't win with it but I feel I could go on line and crash eveyone and not cost them a ton of money..........
I'd just like to know how to race on line with other people and I'm not very computer literate...........THANKS, Jeff

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted January 23, 2001 10:00 PM
When you installed game it should have installed gamespy at the same time. Go ahead and get online. Then go.. start, programs, gamespy arcade, click gamespy arcade and you will be brought to gamespy site. from their you make a profile, it asked me when I first got their if I wanted to download the dtrsc 1.01 patch, so I did. If it dont you can go to the file planet and get it. Theres a chat ongoing so u can ask someone there and they will help also. Also check out this website www.dirtcomp.com they have printable setups, they will make u faster. www.onlineracing.cc/dirt has the chilibowl track I downloaded it the other night, its easy to install the program does everything for u. Also a self installing usac sprint car. bhmotorsports(i cant seem to get it to come up but thats the adress if u search it will) has all the utilities, patches and download stuff. These sites have lots of neet stuff and good info about online racing.

[This message has been edited by MOD RACER#93 (edited January 23, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by MOD RACER#93 (edited January 23, 2001).]

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted January 23, 2001 11:36 PM UIN: 16262997
Pics of a 6 link D&M modified are posted on the dirt forum suspension forum.

eagleii
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 87
posted January 24, 2001 06:03 AM
Gentlemen (and Ladies,too)

The pics of the D&M car is great. I see they have produced their usual outstanding quality of work. Good ol' Texas Engineering. Keep up the great work, Jim & Crew.

To clear up any misunderstanding I my have caused, this is not the D&M car I was refering to and this IS NOT THE FULCRUM SYSTEM. It is not even CLOSE.

From what I can see from the pics, D&M has a GREAT design idea here and I wish them ALL THE BEST with it. I look forward to seeing more of them at the races we will be attending. It will be interesting to see our two cars compete with two good old Texas born systems at work.

Jerry

------------------
EagleII

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted January 24, 2001 08:59 PM
eagleii, after reading team 49's response I have to say that I am sorry for saying that your system was unnessesary to go fast in the modified class. I have thought about it today and have come to the conclusion that if we all did not try something different we would all still be stuck running leaf springs, 'cause the thought would be that nothin is better or simpler. I know leafs are still fast but thats beside the point. I dont know what went down on other forums or post's, and dont want too either. The one thing I know is this thing called INTERNET is GREAT, but you have to be carefull, It can also be pure EVIL...Still getting the so called JUNK e-mail's. So I apologize and look forward to racing with y'all...

eagleii
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 87
posted January 25, 2001 03:06 AM
Team49,

Thanks for the kind words. I truly appreciate it.

ModRacer93,

Race cars will go fast with or without this system. This is just a little help for the cars that can't get the static rear percentage (without a lot of balast) that some of the newer and lighter cars can get.

You are right about trying different things. I have tried about everything you can imagine and MOST of them did not help or just made the problems worse. But, I am persistant. I try something and if it works, fine, if it doesn't, I try to figure out why. If it still doesn't work after trying everything I can imagine, I throw that away and try something else.

I have always tried to know "where I was at" before going to something new, so I could always go back to "where I was" if it didn't work.

I guess it would be pretty boring if we didn't try something different on occasion. It would be even more boring if we all ran the exact same thing, too. In my opinion half the fun in racing is expiermenting, the other half is who you race with and the great people you meet.

Jerry

------------------
EagleII

tls88mod
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 24
posted January 25, 2001 10:36 PM
Amen EagleII, I've been racing for 13 years and the more I race the more I like to try new things on my car. The more I learn the more I find I don't really know as much as I thought. Your posts on the fulcrum system have me scratching my head. It sounds really promising, wish I could see a picture.

eagleii
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 87
posted January 26, 2001 05:52 AM
I have the drawings that were being handed out at Bloomington, now. There must be quite a few of them out there, because I am getting a lot of call on this. However, to be fair, I am going to build one EXACTLY like in the drawings today and we are going to "wring it out" tomorrow to see if this person's rendition will work.

There is quite a bit of difference in the way I discribed it, but, hey, I don't know it all. It may work.

I will report on the findings as soon as I know the results.

------------------
EagleII

eagleii
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 87
posted February 03, 2001 05:52 AM
Everybody,

Well everybody, here's the results. I built the so called "fulcrum" by the drawings that were being handed out. (After some time trying to figure out the scale and trying to make the dimensions work.) Whoever did them is just pretending to be a draftsman.

Anyway, I made one and put it on the #40 Eagle House Car and had both of my local drivers do 125 laps each here on my track on seperate days.

We changed angles every 25 laps, in different combinations and always got the same results. The car was totally unstable on any rough part of the track. It did bite pretty hard as long as the rear bar was level.

When the rear bar was angled down, the car would completely unhook at any bump in the track unless you were carrying quite a bit of power. Any angle up on the rear bar would bind the chassis to the point that you could not get it to roll. It was like having a solid suspension. BOTH drivers had the same exact problems.

I believe that the drawings were intentionaly distributed to discredit the the actual operation of this device. To validate this assumption on my part I had a mechanical designer that I know, Ty Beall, draw a working model in his CAD system.

Ty, works at Los Alamos, NM (the nuke site) and is a senior design engineer there. Ty took the description from this site, before I pulled it, and did a WORKING model of it. TY is no novice at racing either. He drove modifieds & late models for years.

He also took the "dummy's designs" and modeled them, also. Guess what, folks. He got the same results on paper that we got on the track. Scores are : Dummy's Drawings :IT DON'T WORK. The REAL Thing: IT WORKS AS DESCRIBED.

It is a real shame that someone would trash a design, after seeing it work on the CAD system, then try to discredit it with fake drawings, all for his own personal gain or ego.

That's OK with me, though. I have sent out 10 of the REAL ones to 10 individual racers and I actually SOLD one to a reputable chassis builder(He believes it will work). Any of you that have the "Dummy's Drawings" can trade those drawings in for a FREE fulcrum system, ready to install on your car.

I will still handle any and all questions about this privately. Each of the racers that got a fulcrum are going to respond on this forum with their findings. Then we will make it public again. Let the chips fall where they may.

Stay tuned.

(Ooops, almost forgot to sign it.)

Jerry Guest
Eagle Chassis & Fabrication


[This message has been edited by eagleii (edited February 03, 2001).]

#11StockCar
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 17
posted May 03, 2001 11:29 PM
Wow, Wow, Wow, man I wish I had the chance to read the deleted post's. This was a regular soap opera. Well I am curious to how well these 6 links worked and am oblivious to what you engineers are talking about. Wow!

JustaRacer
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 9
posted May 05, 2001 07:24 AM
#11StockCar

WOW doesn't even begin to describe it. This thing has forward bite with plenty to spare. The one I have is called the Eagle's Claw G4. I have raced with it 3 times already this season and my worst finish so far is 2nd. That was the first night. I have won all my heats and features since then. My best start has been 18th.

I called Jerry at Eagle Chassis on Monday after the first race and it turned out I needed a little more angle on both bars and some more preload on the pull bar spring. Problems solved.

The Claw is about the simplest thing I have ever seen. You can even see the rear percentage change when you set the preload on the spring. With 3/8" of preload I gained 5% of rear percentage just setting on the scales. WOW doesn't do it justice. AMAZING it more like it.

dirtworm
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 1
posted May 05, 2001 12:36 PM
not to rain on your parade, but it is not possible to change rear percentage by preloading anything. but glad to hear your car is fast.


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