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Author Topic:   Transcript from the "Live Chat" with Dayton Umholtz last night...
jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 5065
posted October 11, 2002 09:48 AM UIN: 16262997
Thu Oct 10 21:05:42 2002: Gojo64 [] what would it cost too do a all out rebuild for a roch. 2 bbl
Thu Oct 10 21:06:12 2002: KPLugnut [] assuming it's your core carb, we go by what rules you have and build to the max....so...
Thu Oct 10 21:06:35 2002: KPLugnut [] i'll need you to tell me a lot about what the carb is going on to do an exact quote.
Thu Oct 10 21:06:47 2002: KPLugnut [] that's how we operate. we do each one custom for the application.
Thu Oct 10 21:07:10 2002: KPLugnut [] but...I can tell you that our "outlaw style" 2G sells for $350
Thu Oct 10 21:07:23 2002: Gojo64 [] 355 11:1 comp dart iron heads 202val. can go all out on carb
Thu Oct 10 21:08:00 2002: KPLugnut [] OK, with that type of motor, Gojo, we have a 680+cfm one that'll work.
Thu Oct 10 21:08:45 2002: Gojo64 [] kewl thanks i'll check your website then
Thu Oct 10 21:09:01 2002: KPLugnut [] yeah, Gojo, give me a shout, you won't be sorry.
Thu Oct 10 21:09:25 2002: Gojo64 [] thats good most guys here are using the c&s carbs
Thu Oct 10 21:09:46 2002: KPLugnut [] our outlaw carbs outflow them
Thu Oct 10 21:09:58 2002: KPLugnut [] but I don't make a practice of downplaying other's work.
Thu Oct 10 21:10:37 2002: KPLugnut [] we just do our best and that's all we can do.
Thu Oct 10 21:10:57 2002: Hobbystocker [] i run IMCA Stock Cars
Thu Oct 10 21:11:00 2002: KPLugnut [] k
Thu Oct 10 21:11:08 2002: KPLugnut [] 7448 carbs
Thu Oct 10 21:11:23 2002: Hobbystocker [] some events we run "outlaw" rochester...
Thu Oct 10 21:11:35 2002: KPLugnut [] ok.
Thu Oct 10 21:11:41 2002: KPLugnut [] they're fun!
Thu Oct 10 21:11:45 2002: Hobbystocker [] some we have to run Holley 350 cfm
Thu Oct 10 21:11:55 2002: Hobbystocker [] my question is....
Thu Oct 10 21:11:57 2002: KPLugnut [] yep, like normal IMCA rules
Thu Oct 10 21:12:25 2002: Hobbystocker [] can a Holley 2 brrl be made to flow like a "homemade" rochester?
Thu Oct 10 21:12:53 2002: KPLugnut [] not a LEGAL one that passes IMCA tech, but i'm not sure that's what you asked.
Thu Oct 10 21:13:00 2002: Hobbystocker [] in other words i want just 1 carb for both events
Thu Oct 10 21:13:14 2002: KPLugnut [] ok, I see....
Thu Oct 10 21:13:42 2002: KPLugnut [] in that case, we can do a 7448 carb that is snappier and more responsive yet flows...
Thu Oct 10 21:13:50 2002: KPLugnut [] as much as a big outlaw 2g
Thu Oct 10 21:14:03 2002: Hobbystocker [] we run a 406 12:1 dart heads quick cam
Thu Oct 10 21:14:07 2002: KPLugnut [] but don't expect the tech man at IMCA to approve it.
Thu Oct 10 21:14:17 2002: KPLugnut [] our legal ones flow about 430-440
Thu Oct 10 21:14:18 2002: Hobbystocker [] the cam comes in really early
Thu Oct 10 21:14:35 2002: Hobbystocker [] lol silly rules
Thu Oct 10 21:14:36 2002: KPLugnut [] it needs to with the small carb. we have a great combination for those motors.
Thu Oct 10 21:15:13 2002: Hobbystocker [] im still new at stock cars..ran hobbystocks for 4 years
Thu Oct 10 21:15:38 2002: Hobbystocker [] but im trying to ease the change over from track to ytrack
Thu Oct 10 21:15:59 2002: Hobbystocker [] what is your web site Dayton?
Thu Oct 10 21:16:04 2002: KPLugnut [] yeah, I know what you are trying and it can be done. we need to talk.
Thu Oct 10 21:16:16 2002: KPLugnut [] my site is....(everyone pay attention now)...
Thu Oct 10 21:16:32 2002: KPLugnut [] <http://www.kineticperformance.net>
Thu Oct 10 21:16:47 2002: KPLugnut [] yep!
Thu Oct 10 21:16:58 2002: KPLugnut [] the secret is out!
Thu Oct 10 21:17:56 2002: Hobbystocker [] yes ...thank you Dayton and jammin
Thu Oct 10 21:18:01 2002: KPLugnut [] anytime
Thu Oct 10 21:18:04 2002: Hobbystocker [] i will do that dayton
Thu Oct 10 21:19:09 2002: roadhot5 [] dayton? we run a 4412 with a 500 lift cam 350 motor we r going to ph. city ala. nov. 1st for the 3 day race event
Thu Oct 10 21:19:16 2002: Hobbystocker [] is carbs all u do Dayton?
Thu Oct 10 21:19:24 2002: KPLugnut [] nope, lots lots more
Thu Oct 10 21:19:43 2002: champkrt1 [] Daytons work is the greatest!!!
Thu Oct 10 21:19:57 2002: KPLugnut [] oh stop...(grinning)...
Thu Oct 10 21:20:15 2002: hs [] dayton i would like to fine a good carb for a ford 2.3
Thu Oct 10 21:20:31 2002: KPLugnut [] hs, we can do that. and we don't have pullover problems either.
Thu Oct 10 21:20:40 2002: KPLugnut [] a little secret work we do inside.
Thu Oct 10 21:21:10 2002: hs [] right now i am just runnin a stock one
Thu Oct 10 21:21:12 2002: champkrt1 [] Dayton, I never got to ask you, can you do alcohol conversions?
Thu Oct 10 21:21:25 2002: KPLugnut [] yes, all the time. ask jammin...
Thu Oct 10 21:21:30 2002: jammin [] he he
Thu Oct 10 21:21:33 2002: KPLugnut [] he runs our stuff as well as lots of other guys
Thu Oct 10 21:21:35 2002: jammin [] they work
Thu Oct 10 21:21:53 2002: KPLugnut [] how's the throttle response, James...
Thu Oct 10 21:22:27 2002: jammin [] Throttle response is awesome for a carb that big on a little motor
Thu Oct 10 21:22:45 2002: hs [] dayton does your web site have prices for them
Thu Oct 10 21:22:59 2002: KPLugnut [] some, yes. some are not quite accurate, I'll warn ya.
Thu Oct 10 21:23:08 2002: KPLugnut [] they sometimes are less, depending...
Thu Oct 10 21:23:32 2002: KPLugnut [] i do a large amount of custom work, so each one is slightly different and built just for the guy it's for.
Thu Oct 10 21:23:40 2002: Hobbystocker [] rough guess...how long to have a core built?
Thu Oct 10 21:23:50 2002: KPLugnut [] core of a 7448?
Thu Oct 10 21:23:56 2002: Hobbystocker [] yeah?
Thu Oct 10 21:24:06 2002: KPLugnut [] from my core or yours?
Thu Oct 10 21:24:09 2002: Hobbystocker [] mine
Thu Oct 10 21:24:24 2002: KPLugnut [] once I recieve it, I can complete one in 2 days.
Thu Oct 10 21:24:34 2002: Hobbystocker [] wow...thats quick
Thu Oct 10 21:24:41 2002: KPLugnut [] many guys can have their carbs back in one week.
Thu Oct 10 21:24:43 2002: KPLugnut [] BUT...
Thu Oct 10 21:24:49 2002: Hobbystocker [] hehe..uh oh
Thu Oct 10 21:24:51 2002: jimhobby02 [] how much performance difference will going from 66 jets to 75 on a two barrel rochester?
Thu Oct 10 21:24:52 2002: KPLugnut [] don't expect that in March or april
Thu Oct 10 21:25:02 2002: hs [] would u be able to give me a rough idea price
Thu Oct 10 21:25:04 2002: Hobbystocker [] awww how come?
Thu Oct 10 21:25:04 2002: KPLugnut [] jim, that depends on a ton of things.
Thu Oct 10 21:25:27 2002: KPLugnut [] hs, price on what?
Thu Oct 10 21:25:47 2002: hs [] carb for 2.3
Thu Oct 10 21:25:55 2002: KPLugnut [] jim, the jet change needs to be for a reason. just going huge on jets is not always a performance gain.
Thu Oct 10 21:26:17 2002: KPLugnut [] hs...what kind of carb for a 2.3? a stock 5200? or a Holley?
Thu Oct 10 21:27:01 2002: jimhobby02 [] IMCA does not allow much more than that
Thu Oct 10 21:27:41 2002: KPLugnut [] allow much more than what? that jet size?
Thu Oct 10 21:27:41 2002: hs [] i lookin for something that might make my car do better
Thu Oct 10 21:28:01 2002: KPLugnut [] we can help. we also have a lot of other things that can help racers go faster and win.
Thu Oct 10 21:28:16 2002: KPLugnut [] quite often it's not all just a carb change.
Thu Oct 10 21:28:29 2002: KPLugnut [] pretty dumb of a carb guy to tell people it's not the carb, huh?
Thu Oct 10 21:30:30 2002: Bham78 [] do you have a figure for so many GPH per 100 HP
Thu Oct 10 21:30:39 2002: Bham78 [] Meth and gas both
Thu Oct 10 21:31:11 2002: KPLugnut [] umm....off the top of my head, yes, but I'd be wrong. I use those figures from my notes, but can't think straight now.
Thu Oct 10 21:31:28 2002: KPLugnut [] most guys just ask me for fuel pressure numbers. caught me off guard there.
Thu Oct 10 21:31:41 2002: Bham78 [] sure I know what we were using but really dont have a good rule of thumb to use
Thu Oct 10 21:32:16 2002: KPLugnut [] yeah, that is a good question. remind me not to look so dumb next time someone asks one like that.
Thu Oct 10 21:32:34 2002: KPLugnut [] I will have an answer for you bham, just email me, ok?
Thu Oct 10 21:32:45 2002: Bham78 [] Sure will do
Thu Oct 10 21:33:00 2002: RQ [] I have a wissota mod gooddddd 396 chevy with a hvh 1000 brodix on it CFS alky carb do U have one that is snapppy of the corner Jets 80 81s 930 flow
Thu Oct 10 21:33:45 2002: KPLugnut [] yes, we have an alky carb combo that will pump a bit over 1000 and feel like a much smaller carb.
Thu Oct 10 21:33:57 2002: KPLugnut [] it's based on an HP body but everything else is custom built
Thu Oct 10 21:34:14 2002: RQ [] price new
Thu Oct 10 21:34:14 2002: KPLugnut [] btw, guys, NONE of our carbs has a 4 digit price tag either
Thu Oct 10 21:35:06 2002: KPLugnut [] RQ, how does $700 plus shipping sound for that ultimate alky 4bbl
Thu Oct 10 21:35:15 2002: jammin [] I have a 750 pumping out about 890 was it dayton?
Thu Oct 10 21:35:27 2002: KPLugnut [] yes and that's NOT an HP body either
Thu Oct 10 21:35:39 2002: RQ [] great I may contact u before speedweeks thank U
Thu Oct 10 21:35:40 2002: jammin [] ok...890 cfm out of a stock 4 barrel body
Thu Oct 10 21:35:47 2002: KPLugnut [] anytime, RQ
Thu Oct 10 21:35:57 2002: jammin [] I have a 350 chevy with nothing for compression and flow
Thu Oct 10 21:36:08 2002: KPLugnut [] i'll vouch for that! lol
Thu Oct 10 21:36:16 2002: jdimca [] anyone have recommendations for jet sizes for Holly Pro 4150
Thu Oct 10 21:36:23 2002: jammin [] and it made a huge difference in the motor...a carb that big will usually kill one off of the turns
Thu Oct 10 21:36:37 2002: KPLugnut [] WHAT motor
Thu Oct 10 21:36:42 2002: jdimca [] 355
Thu Oct 10 21:36:50 2002: jammin [] not the case, had to add 50 lbs of lead to the car to get it back down again
Thu Oct 10 21:37:07 2002: KPLugnut [] gas or alky, jd?
Thu Oct 10 21:37:12 2002: jdimca [] alky
Thu Oct 10 21:37:32 2002: KPLugnut [] next obvious question is are they alky metering blocks or homemade ones?
Thu Oct 10 21:37:40 2002: KPLugnut [] wait, you said Pro 4150, right?
Thu Oct 10 21:37:44 2002: jdimca [] yep
Thu Oct 10 21:38:07 2002: KPLugnut [] so it's the big jets.....132 and 134 at least, but depends on weather and air quality
Thu Oct 10 21:38:30 2002: jdimca [] ya, its the big jets, but we are currently running 144
Thu Oct 10 21:38:45 2002: KPLugnut [] ok, you're not far off, see it depends what altitude you're at.
Thu Oct 10 21:39:05 2002: KPLugnut [] and a lot of other stuff in the carb, too. air bleeds, power valve, etc etc
Thu Oct 10 21:39:06 2002: jammin [] there are some charts in the toolbox to help a little on that air density
Thu Oct 10 21:39:15 2002: KPLugnut [] hard question to answer accurately, ya know?
Thu Oct 10 21:39:29 2002: KPLugnut [] yes, thanks, jammin.
Thu Oct 10 21:39:29 2002: jdimca [] ya, just wondering what other guys were running
Thu Oct 10 21:39:42 2002: KPLugnut [] well, some are in the 120's and some way higher than you.
Thu Oct 10 21:40:08 2002: jdimca [] does anyone have problems with their fuel pressure at idle?
Thu Oct 10 21:40:26 2002: jdimca [] I can't get my pressure below 6lbs, during idle
Thu Oct 10 21:40:55 2002: KPLugnut [] i don't see a reason to drop it that low anyway. or are you getting pullover or something?
Thu Oct 10 21:41:05 2002: KPLugnut [] 6-7lbs at idle is fine
Thu Oct 10 21:41:23 2002: KPLugnut [] any higher than 9lbs and the floats won't handle it.
Thu Oct 10 21:41:31 2002: jdimca [] it varies around 6-7 lbs at idle and up to 9-10 when I am on it
Thu Oct 10 21:41:45 2002: KPLugnut [] now...are you running a mechanical pump on alky?
Thu Oct 10 21:41:51 2002: jdimca [] yep
Thu Oct 10 21:41:52 2002: KPLugnut [] or belt drive?
Thu Oct 10 21:42:01 2002: KPLugnut [] k, and what kind of regulator?
Thu Oct 10 21:42:04 2002: jdimca [] still trying to get the $$$ for belt drive
Thu Oct 10 21:42:08 2002: KPLugnut [] i hear ya.
Thu Oct 10 21:42:12 2002: jdimca [] barry grant bypass
Thu Oct 10 21:42:24 2002: jdimca [] the one with the idle jet
Thu Oct 10 21:42:25 2002: KPLugnut [] jammin, isn't that the same one you had trouble with?
Thu Oct 10 21:42:38 2002: jammin [] Mine is the moroso block
Thu Oct 10 21:42:45 2002: KPLugnut [] ahh..sorry, wrong one.
Thu Oct 10 21:42:45 2002: jammin [] tough to figure out
Thu Oct 10 21:43:03 2002: KPLugnut [] yeah, I have to admit I don't have much experience with the BG one.
Thu Oct 10 21:43:06 2002: KPLugnut [] sorry
Thu Oct 10 21:43:14 2002: jdimca [] thanks anyway
Thu Oct 10 21:43:15 2002: jammin [] pill bypass?
Thu Oct 10 21:43:28 2002: jammin [] with a spring/shems?
Thu Oct 10 21:43:31 2002: jdimca [] no, I tried that one too, didn't work
Thu Oct 10 21:43:53 2002: jammin [] Mine likes to idle about 4 psi
Thu Oct 10 21:44:07 2002: jammin [] seems to be the best for it...
Thu Oct 10 21:44:09 2002: KPLugnut [] that was my next suggestion...ok, so what rpm are you idling at then?
Thu Oct 10 21:44:11 2002: jdimca [] thats were my engine guy would like to see ours
Thu Oct 10 21:44:23 2002: jdimca [] 1200
Thu Oct 10 21:44:41 2002: jdimca [] anything less, the engine wants to load up and die
Thu Oct 10 21:44:53 2002: KPLugnut [] ok, so ya can't be asked to drop the idle down a hundred or 2...yes, leave the idle alone.
Thu Oct 10 21:45:30 2002: jdimca [] we ran all season with this problem, so far engine is still together
Thu Oct 10 21:45:38 2002: KPLugnut [] is it something like an internal problem in the regulator maybe? or just that that particular pump is a lemon.
Thu Oct 10 21:45:39 2002: Bham78 [] too much pressure and its pullin over
Thu Oct 10 21:45:40 2002: jammin [] too much fuel is better than not enough
Thu Oct 10 21:45:53 2002: KPLugnut [] yes, bham, you're right, but he didn't mention pullover
Thu Oct 10 21:45:53 2002: jammin [] sounds like it to me as well Jim
Thu Oct 10 21:46:06 2002: KPLugnut [] that's why I didn't respond with the answer that the FP was too high
Thu Oct 10 21:46:15 2002: KPLugnut [] it's not THAT much too high
Thu Oct 10 21:46:26 2002: jammin [] 6 lbs is as low as it will go?
Thu Oct 10 21:46:26 2002: jdimca [] no your right
Thu Oct 10 21:46:37 2002: jdimca [] ya jammin
Thu Oct 10 21:46:46 2002: jammin [] I tell ya what
Thu Oct 10 21:46:57 2002: jammin [] I ran into a situation recently with a bad guage
Thu Oct 10 21:47:02 2002: jammin [] gave me fits
Thu Oct 10 21:47:10 2002: jammin [] with fuel pressure
Thu Oct 10 21:47:14 2002: Hobbystocker [] may sound dumb but have you tried another gauge to cross check it?
Thu Oct 10 21:47:26 2002: jdimca [] thats about the only thing I haven't tried
Thu Oct 10 21:47:37 2002: jammin [] try it..I had problems with it....
Thu Oct 10 21:47:37 2002: KPLugnut [] bend the needle on the guage! lol
Thu Oct 10 21:47:51 2002: jdimca [] getting ready to sell, and didn't want to put anymore money in
Thu Oct 10 21:48:30 2002: imca3d [] i have a 750 Holley Double Pumper and my rear squriaters just poors fuel out when the motor is off
Thu Oct 10 21:48:43 2002: imca3d [] this is a gas carb built by HARDCORE racing
Thu Oct 10 21:48:49 2002: KPLugnut [] when it's OFF?
Thu Oct 10 21:48:59 2002: jdimca [] I have seen that
Thu Oct 10 21:49:02 2002: imca3d [] i've adjusted the needle and seat and that has not helped
Thu Oct 10 21:49:06 2002: jammin [] I have too
Thu Oct 10 21:49:12 2002: imca3d [] yes when the motor is off
Thu Oct 10 21:49:13 2002: jdimca [] floats were my problem
Thu Oct 10 21:49:44 2002: KPLugnut [] yep, float level, or the pump circuit is not closing off. but float level first
Thu Oct 10 21:49:45 2002: imca3d [] i have a dual plane manifold with a 1 inch spacer
Thu Oct 10 21:49:47 2002: Hobbystocker [] thats happened on my 2 brrl even...floats were the thing
Thu Oct 10 21:50:16 2002: imca3d [] to me it seems like the rear of the carb is sittin higher then the front
Thu Oct 10 21:50:22 2002: Hobbystocker [] has a small piece of silicone in it
Thu Oct 10 21:50:24 2002: Bham78 [] mine always poured out of the boosters
Thu Oct 10 21:50:30 2002: Hobbystocker [] had*
Thu Oct 10 21:50:36 2002: imca3d [] it has brass floats in it i belive
Thu Oct 10 21:50:56 2002: jammin [] pinholes
Thu Oct 10 21:50:58 2002: KPLugnut [] imca, the brass floats have good and bad points. the good is they almost never leak
Thu Oct 10 21:51:06 2002: KPLugnut [] except for what jammin just said...
Thu Oct 10 21:51:24 2002: KPLugnut [] and the bad is that whenever the car backfires, they can get crushed from backpressure.
Thu Oct 10 21:51:25 2002: imca3d [] i'm not real famiular with crabs and stuff
Thu Oct 10 21:51:50 2002: KPLugnut [] not a problem. if you'd like I can go thru the carb and find it for you.
Thu Oct 10 21:52:07 2002: imca3d [] i live in FL and how much would shipping be
Thu Oct 10 21:52:12 2002: jdimca [] what kind of $$ are we talking about ?
Thu Oct 10 21:52:18 2002: imca3d [] and tat 2
Thu Oct 10 21:52:34 2002: KPLugnut [] maybe $12 to get it here. and you guys will like this....
Thu Oct 10 21:52:35 2002: jdimca [] I would like to have mine looked at too
Thu Oct 10 21:52:59 2002: KPLugnut [] our offseason rebuilds that are just refresh jobs are cheap.
Thu Oct 10 21:53:12 2002: Hobbystocker [] just not in March or April right bud?
Thu Oct 10 21:53:15 2002: imca3d [] how much does that run
Thu Oct 10 21:53:31 2002: imca3d [] my season starts up in Feb.
Oct 10 21:53:48 2002: KPLugnut [] we start at $75 for the 2bbls and go up to about $150 for the top end carbs
Thu Oct 10 21:53:53 2002: jdimca [] can you give us a phone # or e-mail Lugnut
Thu Oct 10 21:54:03 2002: imca3d [] for the Winternationals at Southern Raceway in Milton,FL
Thu Oct 10 21:54:11 2002: KPLugnut [] sure can! my shop/home phone is....
Thu Oct 10 21:54:15 2002: imca3d [] right before speedweeks
Thu Oct 10 21:54:17 2002: KPLugnut [] 607-277-6462
Thu Oct 10 21:54:29 2002: KPLugnut [] call weeknites after 5pm or on weekends.
Thu Oct 10 21:54:42 2002: Hobbystocker [] the web site for Dayton is on the bottom of my screen in URL lists...does everyone have that?
Thu Oct 10 21:54:48 2002: jdimca [] do you machine the meetering blocks too
Thu Oct 10 21:54:50 2002: KPLugnut [] thanks hobby
Thu Oct 10 21:55:00 2002: imca3d [] thanks for the help
Thu Oct 10 21:55:04 2002: KPLugnut [] yes, we are a holley dealer and build all custom ones when needed.
Thu Oct 10 21:55:07 2002: KPLugnut [] anytime, imca
Thu Oct 10 21:55:26 2002: KPLugnut [] we stock most stuff in bulk. even for Rochesters too
Thu Oct 10 21:55:34 2002: bigcrg32 [] do you work on holley 4412 carbs at all?
Thu Oct 10 21:55:39 2002: Blackgold [] what is the max that a 2GC will flow with stock throttle bore. Would boring out the venturi help. We can probably get by with enlarging the Venturi, but not the throttle bores.
Thu Oct 10 21:55:43 2002: KPLugnut [] every day.
Thu Oct 10 21:55:48 2002: imca3d [] thats the 2 barrel 50cfm
Thu Oct 10 21:56:10 2002: imca3d [] 500
Thu Oct 10 21:56:22 2002: KPLugnut [] with stock throttle bore (1.6875") and 1 3/8" venturi, they flowed only 450cfm from the factory
Thu Oct 10 21:56:36 2002: KPLugnut [] we can get just over 500 with minor work, but it depends on what's allowed.
Thu Oct 10 21:56:55 2002: Blackgold [] Have the 435 2g. what will it flow and still appear stock
Thu Oct 10 21:56:57 2002: bigcrg32 [] our tech only checks venturis
Thu Oct 10 21:57:17 2002: KPLugnut [] about 510 but keep in mind guys....here comes a revelation...
Thu Oct 10 21:57:28 2002: KPLugnut [] DON'T get caught up in cfm flow numbers.
Thu Oct 10 21:57:37 2002: Blackgold [] ours only checks the bore of the base
Thu Oct 10 21:57:42 2002: KPLugnut [] a flowbench is ONLY a tool for comparison just like a dyno is.
Thu Oct 10 21:57:54 2002: KPLugnut [] blackgold, then I can get you more rpms than you have now.
Thu Oct 10 21:58:07 2002: KPLugnut [] we can mate the stock base to an outlaw body and give you close to 600cfm
Thu Oct 10 21:58:15 2002: KPLugnut [] anyway, back to flowbenches....
Thu Oct 10 21:58:37 2002: KPLugnut [] a flowbench is a calibrated tool and can be made to "say" any cfm you want it to, so lots of times..
Thu Oct 10 21:58:53 2002: KPLugnut [] and TOO often, builders are using them as sales tools instead of what they should be for.
Thu Oct 10 21:59:48 2002: jammin [] Hey Dayton....can you tell us the proper way to adjust idle mixture screws on our carbs?
Thu Oct 10 21:59:58 2002: KPLugnut [] a tech guy CAN'T check that. he can only measure the carb.
Thu Oct 10 22:00:51 2002: KPLugnut [] ok, real quickly, the reader's digest version.
Thu Oct 10 22:01:20 2002: KPLugnut [] set your butterflies so that there is about .030" of the transfer slot showing....
Thu Oct 10 22:02:00 2002: KPLugnut [] the idea with the slots is to shoot for "squaring" them. expose as much length as there is width to the slot.
Thu Oct 10 22:02:25 2002: KPLugnut [] next, most carbs will be ok with starting with the screws 1 1/2 turns out from lightly seated.
Thu Oct 10 22:02:41 2002: KPLugnut [] this also assumes you have your fuel pressure close and floats close too.
Thu Oct 10 22:03:54 2002: KPLugnut [] the BEST way to do the rest is using a vacuum guage with the car idling. slowly turn each skrew first in, then out
Thu Oct 10 22:04:14 2002: KPLugnut [] until vacuum peaks....hang on a second, cnix, i'll get ya in a second here....
Thu Oct 10 22:04:44 2002: KPLugnut [] then move to the other side and repeat. now, you'll have to either lower or raise the fast idle setting at some
Thu Oct 10 22:05:04 2002: KPLugnut [] point so that the car will still idle. the trick here is to wind up with the idle skrews set so that...
Thu Oct 10 22:05:23 2002: KPLugnut [] the idle vacuum is at its max, and you have the idle transfer slot "squared".
Thu Oct 10 22:05:53 2002: KPLugnut [] ok, cnix....fuel pressure of what? gas or alky?
Thu Oct 10 22:06:03 2002: Hobbystocker [] thats interesting Dayton...thanx bud
Thu Oct 10 22:06:11 2002: KPLugnut [] np
Thu Oct 10 22:06:44 2002: KPLugnut [] anyone need more info, just gimme an email, I'll help ya.
Thu Oct 10 22:06:44 2002: jammin [] kineticperformance@thedirtforum.com <mailto:kineticperformance@thedirtforum.com>
Thu Oct 10 22:06:57 2002: cnix21 [] Alky on dirt 1/4 imca
Thu Oct 10 22:07:35 2002: KPLugnut [] ok, alky FP....we talked a bit about this already...i'll answer like this....4-6lbs at idle, and 10-15 at WOT
Thu Oct 10 22:07:46 2002: KPLugnut [] but it all depends on what you have for a pump, regulator, carb, etc.
Thu Oct 10 22:08:05 2002: KPLugnut [] there's no SET answer of one single number, guys.
Thu Oct 10 22:08:09 2002: KPLugnut [] just like jetting
Thu Oct 10 22:08:12 2002: cnix21 [] rons&rons 355ci
Thu Oct 10 22:08:54 2002: KPLugnut [] ok, cnix, mechanical pump or belt drive?
Thu Oct 10 22:09:04 2002: KPLugnut [] and what regulator
Thu Oct 10 22:09:47 2002: theOutlaw [] what size fuel line for a quadra jet would be best?
Thu Oct 10 22:09:57 2002: cnix21 [] belt bypass pill style 8,000rpm
Thu Oct 10 22:10:22 2002: KPLugnut [] 4lbs at idle, cnix, to start with.
Thu Oct 10 22:10:33 2002: Hobbystocker [] when the weather is cool.....do u want to go down on jets or up?
Thu Oct 10 22:10:57 2002: Hobbystocker [] and visa versa when really hot and humid
Thu Oct 10 22:11:07 2002: KPLugnut [] when the air cools down, it gets more dense. therefore, there's more oxygen per square inch.
Thu Oct 10 22:11:20 2002: KPLugnut [] so, for every 10 degree drop, go one jet size....BUT....
Thu Oct 10 22:11:36 2002: KPLugnut [] humidity and altitude are also a factor, guys.
Thu Oct 10 22:11:44 2002: KPLugnut [] go UP when it gets cold
Thu Oct 10 22:11:47 2002: Hobbystocker [] ok
Thu Oct 10 22:11:55 2002: imca3d [] up???????????
Thu Oct 10 22:12:04 2002: Hobbystocker [] i never can rememeber that for some reason
Thu Oct 10 22:12:06 2002: jammin [] bigger jets when it gets cold....
Thu Oct 10 22:12:09 2002: imca3d [] would that be the same way with gas to
Thu Oct 10 22:12:12 2002: jammin [] smaller when it gets warm
Thu Oct 10 22:12:26 2002: imca3d [] or just alkey
Thu Oct 10 22:12:27 2002: KPLugnut [] yes, UP. if there is more oxygen in the same amount of air, you need a bit more fuel.
Thu Oct 10 22:12:31 2002: KPLugnut [] no matter WHAT fuel
Thu Oct 10 22:12:32 2002: Hobbystocker [] thats what im askin about by the way..gas...not alky
Thu Oct 10 22:13:00 2002: KPLugnut [] now, let me finish. the air that is in the south that is SUPER hot and humid...
Thu Oct 10 22:13:24 2002: KPLugnut [] guys sometimes don't find that dropping their jet is a good idea because keeping the motor cool becomes a problem.
Thu Oct 10 22:15:03 2002: theOutlaw [] what size fuel line for a quadra jet?
Thu Oct 10 22:15:37 2002: KPLugnut [] ok...sorry....3/8" line is fine. 1/2 inch will work but you can get away with 3/8"....
Thu Oct 10 22:15:51 2002: theOutlaw [] any advantages to using a 1/2'?
Thu Oct 10 22:16:24 2002: imca3d [] i can think of more fuel to be able to use
Thu Oct 10 22:16:35 2002: KPLugnut [] ummm....advantages? no....it costs more, the fittings cost more, and keep in mind, that the inlet on a quad is only 3/8 in dia
Thu Oct 10 22:16:45 2002: theOutlaw [] true
Thu Oct 10 22:16:52 2002: KPLugnut [] yes, imca, there is a point there, but who likes to play the gas mileage game in a stocker?
Thu Oct 10 22:17:15 2002: theOutlaw [] just wonderin' cant wait to see what kind of 'magic" your gonna do to mine for next year though
Thu Oct 10 22:17:45 2002: KPLugnut [] outlaw, we'll do our best for ya. and we stick behind every one we build, too.
Thu Oct 10 22:17:49 2002: KPLugnut [] all season long.
Thu Oct 10 22:17:54 2002: jammin [] Guys, I can vouch for Dayton....ask him, I am a sketpic
Thu Oct 10 22:18:03 2002: KPLugnut [] he ain't lyin there!
Thu Oct 10 22:18:14 2002: jammin [] His carbs work
Thu Oct 10 22:18:18 2002: Hobbystocker [] not too many people do that anymore
Thu Oct 10 22:18:22 2002: jammin [] his customer service works even better
Thu Oct 10 22:18:23 2002: KPLugnut [] i know, that's why i started this business.
Thu Oct 10 22:18:37 2002: KPLugnut [] because as a racer I got "done" by lots of companies
Thu Oct 10 22:18:46 2002: theOutlaw [] ok i have another ?
Thu Oct 10 22:18:46 2002: jammin [] It isnt too often that I can find a good carb guy that I can trust to help me and give me 100 percent
Thu Oct 10 22:19:21 2002: theOutlaw [] what advantages to runnin a big fuel pump if you are gonna run 3/8' line?
Thu Oct 10 22:19:40 2002: KPLugnut [] none. and a quad does NOT need a big fuel pump OR big pressure
Thu Oct 10 22:19:45 2002: KPLugnut [] they hate that, in fact
Thu Oct 10 22:19:58 2002: Hobbystocker [] ill second that
Thu Oct 10 22:20:11 2002: theOutlaw [] oh really......
Thu Oct 10 22:20:14 2002: KPLugnut [] 6lbs for gas or 7lbs max for a quad. they get finicky after that.
Thu Oct 10 22:20:22 2002: KPLugnut [] yes.
Thu Oct 10 22:20:27 2002: jammin [] metering rods float dayton?
Thu Oct 10 22:20:36 2002: Hobbystocker [] they fall on thier face actually
Thu Oct 10 22:20:44 2002: KPLugnut [] the float is puny and lots of weird things start happening
Thu Oct 10 22:20:47 2002: KPLugnut [] yes, exactly
Thu Oct 10 22:20:57 2002: KPLugnut [] blubber like a baby, is what they do
Thu Oct 10 22:21:09 2002: KPLugnut [] we have some real crisp quads out there
Thu Oct 10 22:21:13 2002: theOutlaw [] so whats the best yui ever had a quad float, cfm wise before?
Thu Oct 10 22:21:52 2002: KPLugnut [] the best quad we do is in the 900+cfm range, but not many guys need that much carb on a car that typically uses a quad
Thu Oct 10 22:22:08 2002: theOutlaw [] i am new to the quad game, know some things about holley dp'ers but virtually nothin' about a quad
Thu Oct 10 22:22:08 2002: jammin [] nice street carb though....WOW
Thu Oct 10 22:22:12 2002: KPLugnut [] for the vast majority, the 750cfm common quad set up RIGHT is plenty.
Thu Oct 10 22:22:45 2002: Hobbystocker [] what plugs do you recommend?
Thu Oct 10 22:22:59 2002: KPLugnut [] haha...good question....everyone write this down....
Thu Oct 10 22:23:05 2002: KPLugnut [] www.nology.com <http://www.nology.com>
Thu Oct 10 22:23:21 2002: Hobbystocker [] if you're flowin alotta fuel...u want "hot" plugs right?
Thu Oct 10 22:23:22 2002: KPLugnut [] no plug anywhere anytime anyplace can beat 'em
Thu Oct 10 22:23:27 2002: KPLugnut [] NO
Thu Oct 10 22:24:02 2002: KPLugnut [] yes, i have no problem with many brands, but i swear, guys, check out solid silver cored plugs
Thu Oct 10 22:24:17 2002: KPLugnut [] ok, on the hot plug vs cold plug thing...
Thu Oct 10 22:24:24 2002: Hobbystocker [] i've always been told the hotter the better
Thu Oct 10 22:24:51 2002: KPLugnut [] a hot plug simply transfers the heat better and faster. it's not that it has a different spark
Thu Oct 10 22:25:21 2002: KPLugnut [] honestly, guys, if I had a dollar for every motor I'd seen burn a piston from that...
Thu Oct 10 22:26:13 2002: KPLugnut [] with my old 462 heads I ran about 15 years ago yes.
Thu Oct 10 22:26:23 2002: KPLugnut [] actually J6C is what I ran
Thu Oct 10 22:26:27 2002: Hobbystocker [] its a hot plug
Thu Oct 10 22:26:36 2002: KPLugnut [] yes, it is, but we weren't making no power either.
Thu Oct 10 22:26:39 2002: KPLugnut [] 340hp
Thu Oct 10 22:26:52 2002: Hobbystocker [] wow...im old skool then huh?
Thu Oct 10 22:27:00 2002: KPLugnut [] lol...we all are, man
Thu Oct 10 22:27:03 2002: Hobbystocker [] hehe
Thu Oct 10 22:27:20 2002: Hobbystocker [] we run autolite NASCAR plugs now i think
Thu Oct 10 22:27:27 2002: KPLugnut [] i run lots of weird plugs in lots of strange motors, but guys, cross the ones you're running to Silverstone plugs.
Thu Oct 10 22:27:31 2002: KPLugnut [] you'll soon believe
Thu Oct 10 22:27:45 2002: KPLugnut [] the surface gap plugs?
Thu Oct 10 22:27:47 2002: Hobbystocker [] are they pricey?
Thu Oct 10 22:28:21 2002: KPLugnut [] well, Cup guys are running several different designs.
Thu Oct 10 22:28:31 2002: KPLugnut [] one kind for qualifying and different ones for the race
Thu Oct 10 22:28:50 2002: KPLugnut [] as for the price of the plugs....
Thu Oct 10 22:29:04 2002: KPLugnut [] if you consider they last 3 times as long or more, no, they're not expensive.
Thu Oct 10 22:29:18 2002: Hobbystocker [] great...thanx 4 the tip lol
Thu Oct 10 22:29:27 2002: KPLugnut [] anytime.
Thu Oct 10 22:29:33 2002: Hobbystocker [] do u have toorder them?
Thu Oct 10 22:29:39 2002: KPLugnut [] if you need them, I'm a dealer
Thu Oct 10 22:29:44 2002: Hobbystocker [] ok great
Thu Oct 10 22:29:59 2002: KPLugnut [] contact me and we'll discuss all the other goodies, too.
Thu Oct 10 22:30:05 2002: jammin [] Back to carbs.....Dayton, as you know, I have had some problems with my shafts sticking sticking in my HP throttlebody....what can we do to fix that?
Thu Oct 10 22:30:08 2002: Hobbystocker [] count on it
Thu Oct 10 22:30:10 2002: KPLugnut [] that goes for anyone,
Thu Oct 10 22:30:26 2002: KPLugnut [] teflon bushings, to start
Thu Oct 10 22:30:39 2002: jammin [] Alky makes them dry...want to stick
Thu Oct 10 22:30:45 2002: KPLugnut [] alky is such a dry fuel that the carb and all its working parts need help keeping lubed
Thu Oct 10 22:32:07 2002: KPLugnut [] guys the BEST way to get me is via email during the day. i'm online all day ok?
Thu Oct 10 22:32:24 2002: jammin [] What does this require to do a throttlebody dayton?
Thu Oct 10 22:33:34 2002: KPLugnut [] we machine the shafts to accept teflon bushings or "wraps" around them and then if needed...
Thu Oct 10 22:33:45 2002: KPLugnut [] we bush with bronze in the body.
Thu Oct 10 22:34:03 2002: dryslick [] we run a 750 holley on gas
Thu Oct 10 22:34:06 2002: KPLugnut [] k
Thu Oct 10 22:34:18 2002: dryslick [] it has a proform center section
Thu Oct 10 22:34:27 2002: KPLugnut [] yep
Thu Oct 10 22:34:28 2002: dryslick [] looks just like a hp
Thu Oct 10 22:34:39 2002: KPLugnut [] it sorta IS an HP body...
Thu Oct 10 22:34:54 2002: KPLugnut [] we're a Proform dealer too
Thu Oct 10 22:34:59 2002: dryslick [] we have to run 82 jets in the front and 84's in the back
Thu Oct 10 22:35:09 2002: KPLugnut [] that's about right
Thu Oct 10 22:35:16 2002: dryslick [] are the air bleeds to big?
Thu Oct 10 22:35:26 2002: KPLugnut [] well, what size are they?
Thu Oct 10 22:35:38 2002: dryslick [] I don't have it here
Thu Oct 10 22:36:06 2002: KPLugnut [] if the air bleeds are too BIG, the carb would be too lean, but keep in mind, an air bleed even if..
Thu Oct 10 22:36:24 2002: KPLugnut [] it's left OUT altogether will still allow the carb to function.
Thu Oct 10 22:36:27 2002: KPLugnut [] what I mean is....
Thu Oct 10 22:36:50 2002: KPLugnut [] it's because the design of that body flows MORE than the normal 750cfm carb
Thu Oct 10 22:37:02 2002: KPLugnut [] so more air requires more jet.

Thu Oct 10 22:37:17 2002: KPLugnut [] don't worry none. your jets are fine in that size range.
Thu Oct 10 22:37:24 2002: KPLugnut [] it's quite common for that setup.
Thu Oct 10 22:37:37 2002: dryslick [] ok thanks
Thu Oct 10 22:37:41 2002: KPLugnut [] anytime
Thu Oct 10 22:38:40 2002: jammin [] Thank you for the time tonight Dayton
Thu Oct 10 22:38:47 2002: KPLugnut [] no sweat
Thu Oct 10 22:38:55 2002: jammin [] We will have to do this another time soon.
Thu Oct 10 22:39:13 2002: dryslick [] yeah we enjoyed it
Thu Oct 10 22:39:20 2002: jammin [] Yes sir..very informative
Thu Oct 10 22:39:21 2002: theOutlaw [] lol thanks dayton
Thu Oct 10 22:39:32 2002: theOutlaw [] i am looking forward to workin with ya next year on my carb
Thu Oct 10 22:39:49 2002: KPLugnut [] that's what makes me happiest, everyone.
Thu Oct 10 22:39:59 2002: KPLugnut [] when someone says i've helped.
Thu Oct 10 22:40:18 2002: jammin [] Thats what it is all about
Thu Oct 10 22:40:34 2002: KPLugnut [] yep. it makes them long hours in the shop worth it

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