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Author Topic:   percentages?
Eljojo
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 273
posted November 02, 2002 06:14 PM
I see on here considerable discussion of what rate springs seem to work the best, but seldom see anyone talking about percentages, {ie.wheelweights). I've seen weights places ALL over stock cars, I mean from clamped onto the front loop to bolted to the rear bumper. I do'nt understand what the end result one might be attempting to achieve. (Other than make the car handle better) I 've heard that around 52%/54% rear was a good starting point, but what about left side percentages and what is a good starting point on the crossweight. I'm fortunate enough to have access to scales, but if I don't know what to shoot for, what good would they do me?
I'd really appreciate some help on this topic. Would those baselines change with changing track conditions and how? Thanks!

66jj
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 352
posted November 02, 2002 06:48 PM
Ill tell you one huge piece of common sence..

only put weight between the wheels, and put all off it in only one place, usually around the front of the driveline....

why???

go take a egg carton and put 4 eggs in the middle now hold it from underneath in the center with one hand and rotate it back and forth....

now put 2 eggs at each end and rotate it..... ITS SELF EXPLANITORY. BUT IVE SEEN EVEN NORTHWEST TOUR CARS WITH WT BY THE CELL AND TONS OF LATE MODELS.. ITS LIKE A BUILT IN PENDULUM..

its easy to put wt on one corner to achieve scale #s but that isnt where your racing(on scales)go with a basic set up that meets the rules and adjust from there..

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1565
posted November 02, 2002 09:13 PM UIN: 54865418
puting weight between the wheels just makes the car heavier in most cases if you are tring to get the car to handle and not make a certain weight then the farther you put the weight past the wheels the less you have to use.you could put 50# right over the axle and have the same affect as 5# on the bumper

sixwillwin
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 215
posted November 02, 2002 09:38 PM
racer17J is exactly right! Put the lead in the back bumper, you'll need ALOT less to get the right numbers you want.

66jj
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 352
posted November 03, 2002 10:09 AM
guess you guys dont have eggs!!!!!!!!


sixwillwin
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 215
posted November 03, 2002 11:50 AM
Just have tried it both ways in the car on the track and in the shop on the scales. Pendulum effect is almost nothing when talking about 100-200# of ballast in a 3000# car. I had 150# pounds of lead over the fuel cell area(middle of trunk) and just by moving it back 12 inches I was able to reduce the ballast to 75# and get the same rear % numbers. Imagine if I moved it from in front of the rearend housing. In your egg carton model, the ballast(eggs) weigh more than the car (carton). And your eggs arent bolted down with 2...1/2" bolts!! Just kidding with that. Just my experience. Later

[This message has been edited by sixwillwin (edited November 03, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by sixwillwin (edited November 03, 2002).]

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1565
posted November 03, 2002 02:26 PM UIN: 54865418
66jj i noticed on another post you run ashpalt you may have that effect on that type of car where it would make you way loose. on dirt it's another story a car that would be undrivable loose to you would be just right on dirt in most cases.we had a post about this a while back and 95% of us all agree the the pendulum effect does not have that much effect and elljojo your right on the rear thats a good place to start try to get your cross weight around 51-52%

outlawstock17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 620
posted November 03, 2002 05:29 PM
i like my eggs over medium on the rear bumper.......now if those other guys would quit trying to scramble 'em, i'd be set.

Eljojo
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 273
posted November 03, 2002 06:29 PM
Well I just went over to Jammin's tool box and borrowed hes scales for a reverse session (Thanks Jammin) I found that I was talking about over 250lbs of "bite" across the rear. Last season I had a very knowledgeable old guy come over and help me set up my car. He wouldn't have anything to do with the scales, only a tape measure for the ride heights and a socket on the jack put under the center of the rear end housing. We turned jack screws for an hour or so- until we got the car setting one inch higher on the right and one inch higher on the rear. When we jacked it up we had 4 1/2 inches of "bite". That was the absolute best that car ever drove! I put it on the scales Sunday afternoon and had 317 lbs of bite. When I discussed this with my buddies at the track, they convinced me that there was something drasticly wrong with my chassis, that there was NO WAY I could make the car work like that! I still cannot believe that I went back to the shop and changed that car!
Thanks guys!

66jj
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 352
posted November 04, 2002 03:58 AM
i have ran dirt also and its the same on all cars, were in street stocks discussing this, so most have a minimum wt, and my street stock race ready before lead weighed 3003, so i needed and most rules ive seen 400 lbs of lead.

if your talking a imca mod at 2450 i can see where youd be adding little wt, but then why do it before or after the axles, that wt is rear percentage on the scales , but not necessarily on the track.

as to a pavement guy running dirt, i took my pavement street(i changed everything) to a $2500 to win open comp and qualified 3rd with no practice, and never seeing the track, and was swapping 1-2 back and forth with the eventual winner when on lap 68 of 75 a teamate of the car i was racing somehow turned into me breaking a rf ball jt clean off. there were 31 cars. the next year i wasnt allowed to race, and the next again i towed the 6 hrs and was turned away...........

i just sold my pavement late model and my house goes on the market monday. im moving to nebraska, i will be racing either pro am, imca street, or mod.... hard choice, but all are way way cheaper than what i raced this year. you can go to http://spokaneracewaypark.com/ and check out my latest car, go to stocks and drivers, im #66...

i like this board everyone seems way nicer than around here, i cant wait to get a house and shop, im taking a full trailer of parts, thats for sure!!!!!!!!!

sixwillwin
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 215
posted November 04, 2002 08:32 AM
Good luck on your move, I hope all goes smooth for ya. I am in SD, one hour from the NEB border so will we be neighbors! What town are you moving to?? later

sixwillwin
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 215
posted November 04, 2002 08:34 AM
We have 3 different classes of full body stock car type classes here and none have a weight rule. The top class of stockers is getting the race ready weight down to around 2500# less driver, and this with a full frame underneath.

66jj
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 352
posted November 04, 2002 12:36 PM
sixwillin,

im moving to omaha.

what class do you race??
i have bunch of ?s.

Im hauling 3sets of race ready double humps maybe too redy ss valves etc. and 4 good core sets, and a new set of bowties, i also have 10 8" wheels,tubing bender bead roller scales, encl. 28ft trailer etc.

im wondering if i should load up on anything, i have 4 camaro clips i was leaving and can get tons of ford or nova lower a arms for 11 bucks a piece..

thinking of running a imca legal car, that way i can run pro am also by changing the carb.. but i really like camaros, and have built a bunch of them..

sixwillwin
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 215
posted November 04, 2002 02:01 PM
I am 3 hours straight North of Omaha on I-29.
At our tracks we have hobby stocks,similar to IMCA, but more liberal rules. Sportsmans stock car(steel heads, any CID, IMCA type tires) and street stocks which is outlaw type, aftermarket bodies, heimed control arms, aluminum heads, alcohol, American Racer tires. We dont have any Pro Ams here but I am familar with them, it seems they are getting phased out by the IMCA stock car and similar classes. I had both a metric coil car and a Camaro and just sold the Camaro. Let me know any ??? you have. my email is sixwillwin@svtv.com

ryan
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 430
posted November 04, 2002 04:48 PM
I think its a little further from Sioux Falls to Omaha than three hours. I am about 2 1/2 hours from omaha and about 1 1/2 hours away from Sioux Falls. 66jj When do you move to Omaha. I wasn't very intersted in your Bowties but now that I can actually drive and see them it may be a different story. Also somebody I know is looking for double humps how much for the complete heads and how much for the cores.
Email me at rewessen@ptcnet.net
Also if you have any ???'s about the area I would be glad to help. If I were you I would run IMCA in one of the stock car classes ,running that class can make you legal at most tracks in the state with only a tire or carb change.

66jj
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 352
posted November 04, 2002 07:56 PM
i might trade the bowties for 2 sets of straight plug heads ready to go.

i dont think im going to be selling any of my straight plug heads, with a claimer rule i think ill be needing them...

i like the imca stock car rules except the 350 carb,lol. but if its the same for everyone its ok..

i wont be racing till i get a house i would guess 2004, who knows what will be goin on then.

online i havent seen one house between 75-125,000 with even a decent sized shop.

i cant wait to get there and go to some races in april, it looks like all the tracks have lots of cars weekly. im sure ill find someone to crew for.

i like the idea of any imca classes so i can go to some big races ive seen advertised..


ryan
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 430
posted November 04, 2002 08:37 PM
what kind of straight plug heads are you looking for I got quite a few sets it all depends what you are looking for.

ryan
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 430
posted November 04, 2002 09:04 PM
66jj Just to let you know there is a local website that has mainly to do with Eastern Nebraska tracks its www.dirtdrivers.com

URDUSTED
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted November 04, 2002 11:22 PM
66jj, in reference to your egg carton demonstration, that all sounds good, but fact is, how you represent holding the carton with one hand in the middle, most race cars I have seen have the wheels out on the corners of the car.

66jj
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 352
posted November 04, 2002 11:27 PM
no i have never seen a car with the wheels on ends, post a pic of yours it must be a one of a kind.


sixwillwin
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 215
posted November 05, 2002 08:09 AM
Ryan, it is 3 hours from Sioux Falls to Omaha, I have driven it prolly 200 times in my life. Last time I did was 2 weeks ago when I delivered my Camaro to Omaha for a buyer.

CLBaker25
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 29
posted November 05, 2002 06:38 PM
66jj,

I hope you come down and see Beatrice Speedway. We have some great IMCA racing with stock cars, modifieds and hobby stocks. There is a special in the Spring that usually brings some pretty decent cars. We run Saturday nights.

Why don't you run modified? Then you can race wherever.

Corey

66jj
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 352
posted November 07, 2002 06:52 PM
RYAN i have joined dirtdrivers.com

thanks, thats got all the tracks around omaha on it, way cool.

might run a mod, thats what im leaning towards,kinda wondering about the costs to run a grand national also, but we'll see...

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