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Author Topic:   building a new car...couple of questions
dode
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 417
posted September 17, 2002 09:37 AM UIN: 13209501
Ok, season is over but that means the work is just beginning. This is my first car from scratch, so I have a few questions. The car is an 85 Buick Grand National (metric car). Anyway, it is a very clean car that was totally stripped when I got it, totally parted out. Is there any reason that I should pull the body off? I have ready the "how to build an IMCA stock car" article by sleepy gomez in circle track, and I don't see much benefit for doing this. We have a 3400 lb weight limit and had to add over 400 lbs of balast last year, so I am not going to get real pick about hacking stuff out, especially in the back, unless someone can give me a good reason to. Also, it is ok to use the stock body mounts, if they are ok, instead of the solid ones that he made? I don't have a problem doing it, I just don't want to do a bunch of stuff if I don't have to. Next is the motor. What mounts should we use? Solid motor and stock tranny? We ran stock motor and solid tranny mounts last year without a lot of problems. Also, what oil pan/oil pump combo would be good? I HATED our 8 qt pan from last year and I don't think it is necessary. We will be running probably 6000 rpm this year on a 350. Also, I have decided to go ahead and buy a roll cage kit for this year. There are several pretty decent kits, but all of them seem to have a few things I don't like (I can make these parts if necessary). Anyway, what is everyone's opinion as to whom to buy the cage kit from. I like the speedway kit, and it is pretty decently priced at $370, and they are close enough that I can go pick it up. I also like the csc racing kit. I know there are many, so I would like to get some opinions on fit, finish and quality of the kits. I am sure I will have more questions, but this will do it for now. Thanks.

John

Flatlander
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 310
posted September 17, 2002 12:02 PM
The main reason I would pull it is to remove the bushings and to move the body back as far as I could get away with

rico 08
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 372
posted September 17, 2002 12:51 PM
i agree with flatlander that would get you're percentages closer and you can then move you're engine back easier too without sledging the firewall it may seem like some work now but it'll payoff in the end

dode
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 417
posted September 17, 2002 01:05 PM UIN: 13209501
Hmmmm...ok...and how do you deal with the rear axle mounting location? Our rules dictate that it must be mounted in the stock location (9"), but we can trim the fenders up to 2" I think. It also says firewall in stock location, and I think they did a couple of checks this year. Basically for our tech they have a big hat with all the things that they can tech, and they tech the top 5 at the end of the race for like 4 of the things they draw. I am up for getting every advantage we can. I do know on our car last year I had to beat the **** out of the firewall to get the bellhousing and the heads to clear. Thanks for the help so far guys.

John

Jimhobby02
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 69
posted September 17, 2002 02:43 PM
If Speedway is close enough for you to pick it up, check out Sardeson Racing in Greenwood. Their kit is a little different than most of the ones you see, but they will provide everything you need for your rules. They have a set price for this, and last I checked they were about 90 bucks cheaper than Speedway. What class are you going to run and where?

[This message has been edited by Jimhobby02 (edited September 17, 2002).]

dode
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 417
posted September 17, 2002 02:45 PM UIN: 13209501
We are running in the factory stock class at Lakeside Speedway in Kansas City. Speedway is about a 3 hour drive from here I think. Where is Greenwood?

John

SLEEPY GOMEZ
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 199
posted September 17, 2002 08:52 PM
you take the rubber body mount biscuits out and set the body down it will only go back to about where it originally started. In my I-Stock Iused 1 1/2" sq tube risers about 5" long. This let me move the body back about 3/4" from its original location. The point stopping rear body placement is the frame kick up in front of the rear axle. Removing the rubber biscuits and welding the body to the chassis adds a little stiffness to the chassis. Stiffer is better. Forget cutting weight out of the rear, but do move all the weight off of the front that you can. Then ballast the rear for traction. 55% in a stock car is real good. Try to get as much left side weight as possible.

re your 8 qt pan: I like a stock pan, okay maybe one baffle, and an accumulator. Get the kind that stands up without an internal spring. Mount it close to the engine for best results. Hope this helps, SLEEPY

dode
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 417
posted September 17, 2002 09:10 PM UIN: 13209501
Ok...pulling the body makes sense. I never thought about the stiffness aspect. Thanks for the explanation sleepy.

As for the oil pan, you totally lost me. What is an accumulator? Also, what to you mean by stands up without an internal spring? What about mount it close to the engine? What does that mean?

I found a place that has a 6 qt stock style oil pan with one baffle. Would this be a good choice with a stock oil pump? Thanks a bunch!


John

outlawstock17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 620
posted September 18, 2002 06:27 AM
an accumulator is an external oil tank that holds pressurized oil. it's plumbed into the oiling system. if you lose oil pressure due to g-forces, pumping the pan dry, etc. it releases the pressurized oil into the system to keep things oiled. it's really a crutch for a cheap oil pan. a lot of guys in claimer divisions will use one so they can get away with a stock oil pan. in a claim, the oil pan goes but the accumulator stays. moroso makes 2 different versions.

SLEEPY GOMEZ
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 199
posted September 18, 2002 08:40 PM
Dode, Outlawstock17 said it pretty well. An accumulator is just that. It is a tank that accumulates oil under pressure from the oil pump. On a Chevy there is a threaded plug just above the oil filter. When an accumulator is plumbed in there Pressurized oil goes to the engine and the accumulator. In the upright kind the tank is about 3 1/2" in dia and maybe 12 to 18" tall. It is empty except for the oil and the trapped air. When say there is 60 lbs oil pressure there is the same amount of both oil and air pressure in the tank. When the pump begins sucking air in a turn the 60 lbs of air pressure forces the oil in the accumulatorinto the engine.

A couple of years ago I taped a video camera to the roll cage of a street stock. With the accumulator shut off we recorded oilpressure dropping to 3 or 4 lbs in a turn just at the moment the throttle was hammered. With the accumulator working the readings on the oil pressure gauge shoerd a drop ao less than 5 lbs. All this was with a bone stock pan.

Moroso makes one like I have described. the also make one with a piston and a spring so it can be mounted horizontally.

I made my first one some 25 years ago out of a piece of driveshaft. Since thin I have found an aluminum fire extinguisher that has the right sixe opening to thread for a pipe fitting. Either way I strongly recommend them as the cheapest form of engine insurance.

Hope this helps, SLEEPY

Flatlander
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 310
posted September 19, 2002 09:34 PM
actually a true accumulater has a bladder thatr should be filled with nitrogen this is so the release of the oil and the receiving ofoil back to the acc, will always be the same I'm sure these other methods work also

Jimhobby02
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 69
posted September 20, 2002 10:43 PM
Greenwood Nebraska is about 18 miles east of Lincoln on hiway 6.

[This message has been edited by Jimhobby02 (edited September 20, 2002).]

dode
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 417
posted September 25, 2002 10:06 AM UIN: 13209501
Actually we ended up getting the csc racing kit. Hopefully it will be here next week...

John

GnarlyCar
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 0
posted October 01, 2002 01:03 PM
The BEST place to lose pounds off of a metric chassis is between the firewall and the front of the door opening on each side of the car. There's about 10 inches between there that's about 4 or 5 layers thick of steel and you'll lose about 15-20 lbs off the front of the car by cutting it all out.
Personally, I'd gut the rear fenders completely til there's only one layer there, but only to be able to beat out dents.
Weld the floorpan to the chassis, like the other guy said..it makes a BIG difference as far as stiffening everything up. If your car's really a buick grand national, you should have an aluminum hood already, but if not, they're pretty abundant and easy to find in the junkyard with a magnet. Any metric hood will fit, except the early monte carlos. Gut the aluminum hood, but leave the ridge around the edge, it'll make it stay rigid and keep it's shape better. The gutted hood should wiegh less than 20 lbs when you're done with it.

Good Luck,
Matt

dode
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 417
posted October 01, 2002 01:27 PM UIN: 13209501
Yup, it's a GN, but unfortunately it didn't have fenders or a hood. We picked up two fender skins and a hood from an 83 regal from our local U-pull-it. I am not for sure but I don't think the hood is aluminum though. I do plan on gutting a lot of stuff though, especially in the front. We run a 3400 lb rule, so weight in the back doesn't bother me a lot. We had to add 400 lbs to last year's car. I might go back and look for the aluminum hood though. I know they are light because that'w what we ran last year. The cage should be here by the end of the week, so I am ready to get started!! Car is stripped and ready to go!!

John

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