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Author Topic:   awkwardjeff -help please
wingnut
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 70
posted March 30, 2002 04:31 PM
i have been reading your bumpsteer/ackerman posts and was justing getting ready to lock the shop and start cutting,but it dawned on me i didn't fully think this out.
do i have to have all 4 tie rods from the iroc or will stock metric work,will this work with stock metric spindles?
several posts ago you had mentioned bending the steering arms down 3/8.with this combo does this step also have to be done. thank you

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 458
posted March 30, 2002 11:06 PM
I forget WHO...... But someone post if you run the Iroc tie-rods you don't shorten them, I KNOW if you use the metric tie-rods you need to cut them off 1 inch to adjust the toe-out enough.........

The reason for building the iroc draglink is to get the tie-rods close to the same length as the lower A-frames..........this helps bump steer......as for bending the steering arms down.......yes, you need to do that ALSO, that helps corret the bump steer also.

this set-up is for stock metric spindles with stock lower ball joints.........

If you email me I will help you a little more.......I found a little more that could be done, I don't care to discuss it in the open right now......ONLY because I have NOT built a set for a car YET........ AFTER I HAVE BUILT MY NEXT THOUGHTS INTO A CAR, I WILL BE SHARING THAT INFORMATION ALSO....


PLEASE other people don't bomb my email asking for this information, I'm EXTREAMLY BUSY RIGHT NOW. I will post this information if it helps the car. And it will, it just math. I just need to put it on a car and work the numbers to see if I messed something else up.....my NEW idea will help bump steer......but MAY mess the ackerman........that's what needs to be checked BEFORE I share this information....

wingnut, click on my icon and email me....
I will share it with you when I get home next weekend. all the parts listed above are part of the new idea, so you can purchase the above parts, and I will tell you what more needs to be done.....just don't cut and weld the draglink YET....that's part of the change.

Jeff

[This message has been edited by awkwardjeff (edited March 30, 2002).]

redneck racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 276
posted April 01, 2002 12:33 PM
Jeff what you are saying is that if you have a Camaro front clip this modification doesnt need to be done? Does the same go for the Nova since it has a similar front end on it? Why couldnt you use the Camaro drag link,tie rods etc under the metric cars chevy stuff should interchange.Eddie

c21
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 346
posted April 01, 2002 04:07 PM
The 3rd gen Camaro draglink would probably work well on the 2nd Gen camaro front end, .... but ... it looks like you will need to make an extended mount for the idler arm (in order to mount the idler an inch or so closer to the car centerline)and you may have harmonic balancer clearance problems.
The up-side is that you will get to shorten your tie-rod assy's by about 5/16" each and end up with your inner tie-rod pivots 1/2" or so higher ... which is great if this is what your set-up needs to correct bump.

The 2nd gen camaro draglink is probably not reccomended for the metric application because the inner tie-rod mounting locations are closer together and lower (relative to the pitman arm)unless you dig up a ds830 or ds883 (manual steer and 80-81 6cyl versions, now hard to find)which still have the pivots closer together, but they are at the same height relative to the pitman arm as the 3rd gen draglink..... and you will probably have to shorten the idler side of the draglink.

Clear as mud?
Good Luck

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 458
posted April 02, 2002 04:09 PM

TO ALL.....Wingnut refered to a post were we talked about what to change while using a 84'IROC draglink on a small metric......

that's all my post refered too......I don't know about the 2nd generation Camaro's.....

C21 sounds like he has a good handle on bumpsteer himself.

Jeff

c21
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 346
posted April 03, 2002 11:20 AM
Thanks Jeff,
I was inspired by a previous post of yours, promting me to compare the 3rd Gen camaro to a 2nd Gen and thus discovering that this may solve a bumpsteer issue on a Limited Late (2nd Gen Camaro based) caused by excessive tie rod length on both sides (small amount of toe out in compression and droop, both sides). The bonus is that this plentiful (and probably still reasonably priced) draglink raises the inner pivots a bunch much like the now difficult to find and very expencive ds830 and ds883.

c21
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 346
posted April 03, 2002 11:35 AM
Quick question Jeff,
I only find one Moog part number (ds1049)for a 3rd Gen draglink (shows this number for all Camaros and Firebirds 82-92). Did you find something special about the 84 IROC draglink? or was this just the application (or parts car) you happened to pick?
c21

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 458
posted April 05, 2002 12:51 AM
Nothing special.......just when we all go to Checker auto parts they can't look anything up without a year, make and model......

If you told them 3 Generation Camaro only GOD knows what they would look up.

I just tell them 84 IRCO so NOBODY gets too confussed, not even ME.

redneck racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 276
posted April 09, 2002 04:01 PM
Jeff dont knock Checker it all depends on who you are dealing with I for one have never heard it reffered to as a third generation camaro or what not, I have alot of drivers come and see me for parts not only for there racers but for there personal vehicles also besides, i manage a Checker Auto but i do know what you are saying I had the same problem before i worked here but like i say problem is now solved. Eddie

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 458
posted April 09, 2002 08:44 PM
I tried NOT to knock Checker, I even stated that it kept ME from being confussed....
I have several friends that work at Checker and my "gold commercial" account is GREAT. That account saves me hundreds of dollars a year, and I don't need to put their name on the side of my race car. I appriecate all the hard work they have done for me over the years.......Looking up odd ball stuff that I have no part numbers for, and things like that.......them guys are SUPER. But without a make and model it's just hard for them to look parts up........

c21
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 346
posted April 10, 2002 10:57 AM
I have to agree, those guys do there best to help. Now-adays their hands are tied, being required to key in an application to get a part number. I would never ask for a part using an application as vauge as "3rd Gen camaro", I only asked for clarification for the benifit of those who go junk yard'n.

A few of my local parts stores are really helpful in that they let me go behind the counter and carefully go thru boxes on the shelf to measure/compare parts. This is realy helpful on suspsension parts and even finding that perfect molded radiator hose to trim down for an application.

Another useful resource is the Moog master catalog (#F3834) available thru most any Moog/Fedral Mogul retailer (may cost a 6-pack).
c21

widebody
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 197
posted April 10, 2002 01:22 PM
I have to agree,
Having access to those books is worth every cent. I have a ton of catalogs. Most parts stores still get catalogs even if they are on an idiot system(computer). They many not know how to or want to use the catalogs. Some parts stores insist on hiring the McDonalds type of help (can you say "But the computer called for that part number").
SO anyways, they do have to get rid of the old catalogs from time to time. If your in the loop, theyll set some aside for you, Ive waited 9 months to get certain desirable books, The MOOG suspension book is a common favorite. The old car book from moog is a real treasure, it covers cars from 70 and older.

The BEST books are the buyers guides, these are the picture books, they also tell you what years and car the parts came on for your trip to the salvage yard. Some even have dimmensions, sizes and weights of parts.

One more place to get catalogs is on ebay, they usually go for 5-6 bucks.

RangeRover
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 174
posted April 10, 2002 01:35 PM
It bugs me out when I'm asking for break or suspension parts and the girl asks "Does it have air conditioning? How 'bout power windows?" Know what I mean?

redneck racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 276
posted April 10, 2002 05:26 PM
Jeff i know exactly what you mean, i spent a couple of hours looking for a part for a guy, i found the part for him he was very appreciative about it, that hard to find stuff is what makes the job fun and exciting Eddie

powerglides
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 69
posted April 11, 2002 03:36 AM
I have used the 84 camaro center link on my imca mod metric and like jeff said I shortened the tie rods and replaced the right outer with one from a 1980 monza. I also had to move the idler arm inside the frame. I just torched a hole in the bottom and used the same holes. and add 1/4" spacer

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