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Author Topic:   ???'s for Sleepy
sixwillwin
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 215
posted March 16, 2002 04:47 PM
Sleepy G. I have a question for you. In your Magazine I Stock buildup, I dont remember what issue, but you stated that to fix a "push" you would turn rounds DOWN on the LR or RF and to fix "loose" you would turn DOWN on the RR. Was that a misprint? If you have a "push" (not driver induced) turning down on the LR or RF would add crossweight and make it push worse. Just wondering your thoughts. I am from near Iowa (I stock heaven) and most are race ready nowadays at 2800# or so. I believe your running a torque converter is a big mistake, your giving away alot of power with no benefits.

SLEEPY GOMEZ
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 199
posted March 16, 2002 11:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sixwillwin:
Sleepy G. I have a question for you. In your Magazine I Stock buildup, I dont remember what issue, but you stated that to fix a "push" you would turn rounds DOWN on the LR or RF and to fix "loose" you would turn DOWN on the RR. Was that a misprint? If you have a "push" (not driver induced) turning down on the LR or RF would add crossweight and make it push worse. Just wondering your thoughts. I am from near Iowa (I stock heaven) and most are race ready nowadays at 2800# or so. I believe your running a torque converter is a big mistake, your giving away alot of power with no benefits.

Hello sixwillwin, Let me see what I can do here. I'll take the easy one first. The torque converter. This is an 8' 22 lb. unit it has near stock stall speed being fabbed by Mikes Transmissions for circle track applications not a drag race unit. No a tq is not lighter than a solid hook up. It does do what its name implies, convert rpm to torque. It is not just a fluid coupling. Did you ever run slipper clutches on karts? The tq works well on bull rings tot so good on bigger trtacks.

The advantage is that the driver, by using the throttle to lead the car can build torque when needed. This can be on a start or just coming out of the corner. Also in case of a situation leading to a yellow if the tq lets the car stay running (the driver is usually to busy with other things) it can mean several places on a restart.

Its disadvantages seem to be in a situation where the driver must back off and then back on in the straight. This can lead to lag.

Remember everything in racing is a compromise. I made mine at a different point than most. However I really like the TQ. It works good for us.

Now the push -loose. A tire with more weight on it will have more traction. When weight is added or subtracted by adjusting a corner it affects cross weight.

This example will use jack screws. If your rules won't allow them change front tire sizes.

Screwing down on the jackscrew on the RF will add weight to the RF and LR. This is adding cross weight. Screwing up on the LF will reduce weight on the LF. This will reduce cross weight.

The cross weights have the most effect upon corner entry. YOU GOTTA MAKE THE CAR TURN. Although the crossweight adjustments affect other areas of handling, you must first make the car turn.

For corner exit stagger is the easiest and most effective adjustment. In IMCA where the same tire must be use all around measure closely, stretching if you can and get an 1 1/4" to 1 1/2". If not enough stagger is available, use air pressure and adjust cross weight carefully remembering you are cutting off one end of the blanket and sewing it on the other to make it longer.

I hope I cleared up some of your concerns. Let me know what you think. SLEEPY


sixwillwin
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 215
posted March 17, 2002 04:06 PM
Thanks Sleepy, however I don't agree. I am a track champion and have won several national events. You never want to give away horsepower with a torque converter, if its "too much" power with a direct drive, the driver needs to learn to squeeze the throttle instead of mashing it. The driver can decrease HP but cannot increase it. I also believe your very wrong on "to fix a push". You say to fix a pushing condition, to add crossweight by screwing down the LR or RF. Well, that is going to make the push worse(with some exceptions). Your LR is already overdriving the RR, and you will make it worse by adding more bite to the LR. All chassis books, troubleshooting guides, etc. will agree with me. I am concerned about the beginning racers that read that in CT or SCR(i forgot which one) and have been misled by that advice.

SLEEPY GOMEZ
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 199
posted March 17, 2002 04:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sixwillwin:
Thanks Sleepy, however I don't agree. I am a track champion and have won several national events. You never want to give away horsepower with a torque converter, if its "too much" power with a direct drive, the driver needs to learn to squeeze the throttle instead of mashing it. The driver can decrease HP but cannot increase it. I also believe your very wrong on "to fix a push". You say to fix a pushing condition, to add crossweight by screwing down the LR or RF. Well, that is going to make the push worse(with some exceptions). Your LR is already overdriving the RR, and you will make it worse by adding more bite to the LR. All chassis books, troubleshooting guides, etc. will agree with me. I am concerned about the beginning racers that read that in CT or SCR(i forgot which one) and have been misled by that advice.

Dear sixwillwin, I was trying to give a simple answer to a complex problem. Adding cross weight will cure a push GOING IN. Your reply told me you are talking about a push on corner exit. Coming out of the corner under power is a different basket of cow patties. Forgive me if I didn't make the distinction between entry and exit.


I'm not convinced I'm wrong on the TQ. Yes, it does have some trade offs, but I will continue to use it until I can prove it isn't the best way.

One nice thing about dirt short track racing is that season championships don't prove a piece of equipment. We can discuss them all night. A championship proves the ability of the driver and how hard he works at racing. I have always felt at our level at least the hardest worker with the most ability is superior to good accumulations of equipment. Sixwillwin, I salute you on your championship, you are obviously a talented and hard working guy.

SLEEPY

sixwillwin
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 215
posted March 17, 2002 09:27 PM
Thanks for your reply Sleepy. The "exception" that I referred to was a situation just as you explained, tight going in. See we do agree there. I was mostly referring to coming out of the corner, where most of the passing is done around here, thanks for clearing that up. I think it could have been stated more clearly in the magazine buildup however. There are different ways to skin a cat, thats for sure.
Good luck racin' and all other activities.
sixwillwin

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