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Author Topic:   travel
ss38k
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22
posted June 20, 2001 04:59 PM
help me please here it is my lf 922 heavy shock 1020 afco rf 821 1021 afco ex heavy shock lr 987 rr 780. left side 1909 leftside %is 54.39 rear is 1767 rear % is 50.34 crossweight 1808 cross is 51.51% my real ? is how much travel do i need between the bottom aframe and the frame.i only have 1 inch i was told by another i should try to get aleast 2 or 3 inch's.i run a 1/4 mile track shaped like a egg. my spring's are lf 1100 rf 1200 lr 175 rr 200 thinking about putting a 1300 in rf and 1200 in lf car is very fast.i can pass car's but if i am not careful going in to the turn i will push and then lose spot's. not saying that this is all car ether.i am working on my corner entry . oooo and by the way this only happen's in the feature when it get's dry and slick . car will go through corner's nice in the heat race. when it is wet.which my heat's are wet.alway's i hope someone can help me.and thank you very much

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted June 20, 2001 11:39 PM
The reason people tell you that you need more room there is because that's what the fast guys have.........the REASON to have more room there is roll center and camber gain...........your weights look good to me, a lttle light on rear percent.......
run a extended upper ball joint, lower the chassis a little......say a 1/2 inch....this will help get you going in the right direction.......Jeff

ss38k
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22
posted June 21, 2001 07:06 AM
jeff thanks alot for the advise .i have heard of other guy's doing that but i thought they were putting a extended ball joint in the lower aframe.why would you put the extended ball joint. in the upper and not the lower.also about my car bouncing alittle in the front when i go in to the corner's.and what about my push going in to the turn.do you think stiffing the front up to a 1200 lf and a 1300 rf will help me.from the 1100 lf rf1200. or will stiffer make it worst.thank's again

racer17j
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 165
posted June 21, 2001 11:36 AM UIN: 54865418
i had the same problem with the front end hopping your front springs are to close try dropping your left front down to 1000 and keep the 1200 on the rf.also the big part of my push was to heavy of a right foot going in

ss38k
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22
posted June 21, 2001 03:50 PM
10-4 on the big foot i have been told that lol . any way not a bad idea on the front spring's but it is my right front doing the bouncing. i thought about 1300 rf and 1200 or a 1100 in the lf what do you think of that. matterfact i already changed them was going to weight the car friday and race it saturday.but i am open for anything before saturday.what is the big dif on the 100# to a 200# split on the front spring's thank's alot for the info. only going in two my first full year so lot's of help is need.you already know that know one were i race is going to tell me lol. o well

Rooster
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 90
posted June 21, 2001 04:37 PM
Hey ss38k, You'll always get some good advice here. One thing I thought of while reading these posts. We have a Street Stock with a metric frame, and the right front did some bouncing in the turns. We checked shocks, changed springs, moved lead, tried a sway bar and guess what??? We noticed that the frame and A-arm were making contact where the A-arm slips into the frame, We torched it out a little to give it more room (maybe 1/2 inch or so) Cured the problem. Might take a look at that area, it might not be a problem, but it's in an area that's just hard to see.

ss38k
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22
posted June 21, 2001 09:31 PM
you cut the frame out wright did you have to plate it up after you cut it out.sound's like alot of work to me thank's for the advise. but what about stiffer spring's on the front to help the push that i have thank's again

Rooster
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 90
posted June 23, 2001 01:23 AM
We only cut enough to allow the A-arm a little more travel before it bottomed out. Stiffer springs can increase your push, I'm just suggesting that you look and make sure that your not running out of travel like we were. Putting in a stiffer spring didn't help until we cut above the A-arm to allow a little more movement. It only takes a moment to check, and if needed, not much to trim it out......good luck

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted June 23, 2001 03:50 PM
The reason the lower A frame hits the frame is because the car has been lowered to get the roll center located properly......I agree with cutting the frame to make room...this is a common problem. some people run extended ball joints both upper and lower......I personally run a standard ball joint in the lower to keep the bump steer down.......see if you lower the A frame away from the steering arm you create more bump steer.........and a metric car already has too musch bump steer......I use the extended ball joint in the upper to move the roll center.........and create more camber gain..........this isn't the only way to get the job done......people win every weekend with other parts and set-ups.....this is what I prefer, and I hope I explained why.........Jeff

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted June 23, 2001 03:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by awkwardjeff:
The reason the lower A frame hits the frame is because the car has been lowered to get the roll center located properly......I agree with cutting the frame to make room...this is a common problem. some people run extended ball joints both upper and lower......I personally run a standard ball joint in the lower to keep the bump steer down.......see if you lower the A frame away from the steering arm you create more bump steer.........and a metric car already has too musch bump steer......I use the extended ball joint in the upper to move the roll center.........and create more camber gain..........this isn't the only way to get the job done......people win every weekend with other parts and set-ups.....this is what I prefer, and I hope I explained why.........Jeff

PS. the extended lower ball joint will help give you more room between the A-frame and the chassis.......but I don't prefer this method because you helped cure on problem but create a few others.

Dan 21
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted June 23, 2001 10:57 PM
SS38k Use the extended upper ball joint and put your 1200 # spring in the left front and put a 1600 or 1700 in the right front.The car will turn in a lot better and should not push.You have to use a strong enough spring to make the right front dig in and not slide out from under you.The more split you run on the front the looser you will be going in.So if these springs make you too loose going in put a 1400 on the left front or put a stiffer spring on the right rear or put a little more weight on the RR.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 218
posted June 23, 2001 11:22 PM
Dan 21, Not to argue with you......my thoughts and experience tells me that going too stiff on the right front will NOT let the left rear unload, so if you drive with the throttle on going into the corner the car will have a push.
A lot of the set-up choice are dictated by the way the driver does his job. Your why would work good for a guy that gets completely out of the throttle......not for a guy that drives in with the throttle down.
I only point this out to help ss38k think of what he needs to help make the proper changes.......either way can help the car depending on the drives taste. rather than stiffen up the right front, I would elect to soften up the left front to get more spring split........Just my thoughts.
Jeff

racer17j
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 165
posted June 24, 2001 01:48 AM UIN: 54865418
dan where do you even find a spring that heavy?
my own thought are the 1200 might even be to heavy of a spring but like jeff said it depends on the drive i run 1100 rf and 950 lf on my metric car and it hasn't pushed a bit since i changed my line and corner entery

Dan 21
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted June 24, 2001 10:57 AM
SS38k You can leave your right spring at 1200 and drop your left down to 800 or 900 and the car will turn in better. Going up on the springs like i said before will help the car in more than one way.If you are too soft on the right front when you run in real hard and deep the car will go down to fast and to much on the R.F.and will unload the L.R. and load up on the R.R.then the car will not turn or rotate as some people say.This stronger spring on the R.F.will hold the car up better and help keep weight on the L.R.going in and when you lift to set the car it will set the rear out and you get back on the gas and hold the rear out with power.If you have sportsman or late modle cars at your track stand down at the corner and watch how these guys run.The stronger spring on the R.F.will help to keep your a frame from hitting also.We have notched the frame and or a frame for clearance.On the stock type chassis on dirt we never set the chassis lower than 6 inches fron floor to bottom of chassis where side rail starts to go up to front snout.Then we re do everything to get a 5 to 6 inch roll center and as close to o as possible on bump steer. The heigher roll center will work with a little softer spring than a low roll center such as 2 or 3 inch.Also the strong springs in the front will help the car transfer weight at the front more.You can get the springs at afco,coleman or landrum springs.Like everyone says there is more than one way to skin a cat.I say that there are racers and trere are riders,just depends on how you set up. Sorry i got so long winded on this.Hope you get it worked out and get real fast.Handeling is the key to it all.

Dan 21
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted June 24, 2001 11:54 AM
SS38k If your rules state that you can not use jack bolts in the front then use the hidden spring adjusters that go on top of the spring up in the pocket.Also you might try setting the R.F.in 1 inch before you run the dry track.Be shure to use the same size tire so the 1 inch off set will be the only change.Check your R.F.camber and see if it is gaining like it should.If it is decambering or having camber loss instead of camber gain this will cause a push going in.Also if your R.F.toes out to much on bump it will try to push.What we shoot for on handeling is to run in deep enough to feel the rear starting to slide out lift about half way off and let the car rotate or ser and stand back on the gas to keep it tailed out enough to keep it turning.As you go around the middle and start off you feel the car suck back down and drive straight off .The faster and straighter you can corner the faster you will be down the straight aways.Work on the handeling and work on being real smooth.When you have this push on dry going in how is it going around and off.

ss38k
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22
posted June 24, 2001 04:22 PM
ok dan jeff rooster i like all the in put .i have thought about it and looked at my frame. was not in to cutting the frame.but i realy don't see that it will weaken it if i do . now that i looked at it.still a little confused on my front spring's on which one to run . i do think i am going to try a 200# split. because i like the idea of getting the rear to come around and then. picking the rear up with the gas.that is the other thing i haven't been able to get my car to do on the dry slick my heat are all wet work's great in heat.. . i belive what i am going to run this weekend is a rf 1400 lf 1200 and in the back i have a lr 175 and rr 200 i think i am going to switch them. never try it that way yet. i have been told if i put my 175 over on the rr it will let car roll over alittle more and tighten it up coming off.but then again i have been told that a car that push's going in is more then likey to be loose off.what do you guy's think .thank you guys again.hope i can give some advice back some time .......can tell you this tho my car is very fast like a rocket lol.passing car down the stright's with not much trouble at all but when i push in the turn's they get there spot back. i do have a heavy foot going in. going to try and fix that.thanl's again

racer17j
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 165
posted June 25, 2001 12:55 AM UIN: 54865418
make sure you do one at a time don't change bolth sets of springs because if it doesn't work you never know whjat part of the combo did or didn't work

ss38k
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22
posted June 26, 2001 04:07 PM
thank you every one for the help ..Race on

hesseracing
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted June 29, 2001 10:31 PM
u need to change those rear springs the heavy spring needs to be on the left. my wife runs a metric. lf 1000 rf 1200 lr 200 rr 150 it ran great the after a couple of weeks it got bouncy in the corner like yours and we found that the rf shock went bad. try checking that later scott

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