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Author Topic:   ENGINE oil additives
fastrack1
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 73
posted February 28, 2003 06:12 PM
LETS HEAR FROM SOME OF U OUT THERE WHAT ADDITIVES DO U ADD IN ADDITION TO THE ENGINE OIL FOR EXAMPLE STP - LUCAS ETC AND DO U FEEL ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER HAVE USED STP FOR YEARS BUT IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WILL BE EVEN BETTER

outlawstock17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 620
posted February 28, 2003 09:59 PM
i use mobil 1 synthetic. all the additives are already there. no engine failures since i switched to synthetic and i run a 351w ford which is notorious for high oil temperatures because of the large bearing journals and the bearings have looked excellent even after 25+ races. i do run an oil cooler though.

mudcat #34
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 38
posted March 01, 2003 02:45 AM UIN: 114549278
just about everyone i have ever talk to swears by lucas.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 74
posted March 02, 2003 12:36 PM
the best and only thing to run is ER (energy release) your oil temp goes down and same for water temp it drop 30 degress with it and my bearings were like brand new after 27 nights at 7800 rpm

NYhick
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 82
posted March 02, 2003 09:29 PM
Like outlawstock I also run mobile 1 sinthetic and have never needed any additives. I had 3 seasons on the same motor and during teardown this winter I almost put it back together the way it was, thats how good everything looked. I do only run about 5800 rpms in my stock class, I still think that good considering everything. My opinion is that if you need additives then you dont run good enough oil......$.02

ryan
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 430
posted March 02, 2003 10:01 PM
Hey iowa girl where do you get e.r. never heard of it before. cost? What part of IA are you from I'm Nebraska man.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 74
posted March 03, 2003 10:35 PM
any oreillys autoparts can get it if they say no they cant ask them to transfer it in from the knoxville ia store. store number 303.
The cost is 20 dollars for 16 ounzes every gaerte engines has it in them when they leave. almost every outlaw sprint car driver is running it it is the best stuff you will ever run. It works on a temperature release the warmer the motor gets the better the stuff works

outlawstock17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 620
posted March 03, 2003 11:01 PM
i got to looking around and found this in another forum on the web. i agree with the author. the statement is in reference to energy release oil additive.....

"Just another chlorinated additive and should not be used.If you want better mpg.and lower friction use a synthetic like Mobil 1 not an additive"

energy release sounds like another slick 50 or lucas gimmick to me. i'd like to hear steve hendren's take on this subject.

[This message has been edited by outlawstock17 (edited March 03, 2003).]

sdhnc29
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 467
posted March 04, 2003 01:11 AM
I'll have to agree with outlawstock17 on this subject . Though I'm not familiar with the Lucas oil treatment , I am familiar with Slick 50 and their "slick" advertising . I remember when Slick 50 first came out , and all of their outrageous claims that they made in there advertising . Unfortunately , none of them were true , at least from my dyno testing .

In my opinion , the only oil to use is synthetic . We use Mobli 1 in our gas engines , and Royal Purple 21 and 41 in our alky engines . The synthetic oil's that we use have proven over time to increase roller rocker life , roller lifter life , and engine bearing life . This is not to mention cooler oil temp's and cooler water temp's .

Most people here have seen the "roller bearing load test" that EVERY additive pusher carries around to demonstrate how great there product is . I'll let you in on a little secret ...... Next time you see one of these display's , let the person running it show you how great their additive work's . Watch closely !! They will show you regular oil running on the load bearing tester , and of course with very little weight attached to the bar , it will seize up . Next , they will remove the ball bearing , and wipe it down with a rag . They will then reinstall the bearing , and add their additive to the oil . Next , you will be stunned and amazed that they can double the weight on the load tester , and nothing seizes up !!! Now ...... here is where you can destroy there little test !! After they remove the bearing from the first test , and they want to use their rag to wipe down the bearing , tell them that you would like to use your own rag to wipe down the bearing . This is where it gets funny ! If they are stupid enough to let you do this , and most are not , take a clean rag and spray the nastiest carb cleaner that you have access to on your rag and clean the bearing . Next , watch what happens when they add their additive to the oil , and run the load test with the bearing that you cleaned . Guess what ......... the bearing seizes up with the exact same load as with the first test ! Next , kick the salesman out of your shop !!! We have done this to additive pusher's on many , many occasions . BTW , in our honest load bearing testing , Royal Purple and Mobil 1 kick **** over every other oil on the market .

The only additive that we have ever tried in conventional oil , and seen that it made a difference in bearing wear on engines that run very high oil temp. , was Pro-Blend . But even the Pro-Blend does not improve roller lifter life like the synthetic's .

Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 74
posted March 04, 2003 01:47 AM
Then how come all of the test i have done on the dyno have worked and all test have pointed back to energy release. Lower oil temp lower water temp incresed bearing life and why does the best sprint car engine maker in the States use it in every motor that rolls out of their shop. granted that nothing usually works in a motor that is a million years old but it does work in a new motor after break in
Iam not knocking your OPION just wondering what you have encountered
Have you ever used Energy Release?

[This message has been edited by iowa_dirt_track_girl (edited March 04, 2003).]

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 74
posted March 04, 2003 01:50 AM
What have you found on using mobil one or any synthetic in a motor that has alot of nights and leaks oil?

outlawstock17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 620
posted March 04, 2003 07:24 AM
interesting story steve. thanks for your input. i've got one for you.....

some friends and me took a 650 mile road trip to talladega for the diehard 500 one year. we were in this old 1970 ford van and it was using a little oil on the way there. we picked up some "engine restore" when we got there and put it in the engine. on the way home the engine would run for about 10 minutes and then lose all it's oil pressure. i'd kill the engine and then start it back up and it would be fine for 10 more minutes. we did this "off and on" deal for 45 miles until we got to birmingham, where i changed the oil and filter. after that everything was fine and we went the remaining 600 miles without a hitch.

since then i've stayed away from additives. i've heard some horror stories about lucas additive foaming in the crankcase.

dirt girl, you are correct about synthetic oil. if you have a leak, it will find it and find it fast. i wouldn't waste my money using synthetic oil in an old worn out engine. it's too late in the game for the synthetic to do much good, although you will see a slight power increase with synthetic. this is verified on the dyno.

[This message has been edited by outlawstock17 (edited March 04, 2003).]

dgb
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 7
posted March 04, 2003 08:06 AM
steve, is there a reason why you use the mobil for gas and not for alky? What happens when you use mobil with alky? I've been telling myself for two years to switch to synthetic, this year I finally think I'm going to do it. lol

dirtbuster
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 353
posted March 04, 2003 09:34 AM
Steve,
I also would like to know why you use M1 for gas and RP for alky?

sdhnc29
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 467
posted March 04, 2003 01:23 PM
dgb and dirtbuster ,

The regular Mobil 1 is not compatible with alky . Mobil 1 does make an alky friendly oil , called type F , used primarily in F1 car's . But this oil is next to impossible to get in the US . The Royal Purple is 100% compatible with alky . After running the RP in an alky engine , the oil will change to a brownish color . After a short time , the oil will allow the alky contamination to evaporate from the oil . Regular oil will not do this , it will simply separate .

iowa_dirt_track_girl ,

Like I stated at the start of my post , I do not have any experience with the Lucas oil treatment . I have no idea why one of the best sprint car engine builders in the US would be using it , I'd have to call and ask , but it probably has to do with advertising . But .... I can tell you that Ron Shaver(one of the best sprint car engine builder's in the US) uses and recommends Royal Purple . In fact , he's the one that turned us onto it back in 1993 . I'd also consider this when choosing the oil and additives that you want to use ....... NASCAR team's have practically an unlimited budget for research and development , and I can not name one single team , including the oil sponsored team's , that are using a conventional oil with Lucas , Slick 50 , or any other oil additive . They are all using synthetic ! So as I stated before , with all of my dyno testing , I have yet to see an additive produce the result's that they advertise . But ... in every test that I have done with synthetic vs. regular oil with additives , the synthetic is worth 2.5% in power gain . Since water temp. can be controlled on the engine dyno , lower water temp. result's are virtually impossible to find . On track testing is where this comes into play , and once again , the synthetic proves to run much lower oil temp's , resulting in cooler water temp's . You must remember one thing about sprint car engines , they are only run for 1-3 night's on the really high HP engines , and only about 10 night's on the average engine . When they get freshened up , practically everything is replaced . The average racer can not afford to put $300-$400 worth of roller lifter's in there engine every 3 races , in fact most hope to get a full season out them . After switching to synthetic's , we found that roller lifter life was doubled . All in all , most engine builder's around the country are using or switching to synthetic's , and with all of the technology in Winston Cup , and there choice to use synthetic oil , why re-invent the wheel ?

As for leaky engines with a ton of laps on them , freshen it up , fix the leak , and switch to synthetic .

This topic can go on for year's .... my oil is best ... no my oil is best , and so on and so forth . But the bottom line is , synthetic's work , and they work better than any conventional oil with any type of additive that a company can dream up to sell the public .

Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780

outlawstock17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 620
posted March 04, 2003 01:45 PM
good stuff steve. we always appreciate your input. keep it comin'...

dirtbuster
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 353
posted March 04, 2003 01:54 PM
Steve,

In a typical IMCA type modified how often would you recommend changing oil with synthetic?

What weight of oil is the RP 41 and is that what you would reccommend?


We have been using Mobil 1 on alky for 3 years now and have not seen any problems yet. We change the filter every other race and oil every 4 or 6 races. Have played with changing RP but M1 has done good for us.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 74
posted March 04, 2003 02:46 PM
LOL I agree with what you say other then the fact that shaver builds the best sprint motor i still think gaerte builds the best LOL ( because i run one)
I have a lot of guys ask me about synthetic oil but alot of guys get claim every other weekend so they cant afford 4 dollar a quart oil but then they say they can afford a 20 dollar additive doesnt add up does it.
What do you think about water wetter and such water additives?

HRT187
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 173
posted March 04, 2003 02:57 PM
I'm curious about oils like Amsoil that recommend extended oil changes and say things about Mobil 1 and Castrol not being actual synthetics. I guess this kinda ties into the question about how often to change oil.

On Kendall we used to change oil every weekend. We still do on Mobil 1 but I dunno if we need to or not. I'm thinking of switching to Amsoil and changing every other week.

outlawstock17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 620
posted March 04, 2003 04:01 PM
hrt187, you change your mobil 1 every week? OUCH! save your money dude, i changed mine 4 times during the whole season(25 races) and the bearings looked so good, i was tempted to re-use them. 393 stroker ford, large journal crank....very hard on the oil.

dirt girl, i've used water wetter and royal purple in the coolant. i don't think it helps. i didn't notice any temperature reduction. another waste of money, in my opinion. i use a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water.

dirtracer7
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 106
posted March 04, 2003 06:49 PM
Mobil one here I figured if someone like Rusty Wallace would use it for 15+ years it must be a decent product.

sdhnc29
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 467
posted March 04, 2003 06:52 PM
dirtbuster ,

If your running on a very dusty track every week , then I'd suggest changing every 4 races . If your running in a cleaner environment , then every 6-7 races . I recommend using the 21 , but some customer's are scared to death when they poor it in there engines , since it pore's like water , so I tell them to use the 41 .

iowa_dirt_track_girl ,

I agree , it seems strange

I have tried water wetter before (redline), and did not notice a difference . Howard Stewart told my dad several year's ago , to use a cap full of liquid dish detergent in the cooling system , and this would do the same thing . So that's what I've used in my late model for several year's . I guess my water is wetter ... LOL

HRT187 ,

Save your money on those oil changes , and follow what I recommended above . Amzoil is a descent oil , but if you compare load rate chart's , you will see that Mobil 1 and Royal Purple rate much higher. You can call all of the oil manufacturers , and they will send data sheet's to you , and you can compare .

Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780

Racer X
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 63
posted March 04, 2003 08:06 PM
How about the the regular royal purple.Does it mix with alky like the 21 and the 41?We ran the regular 20/50 last year on alky with good results.

dirtracer14
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 499
posted March 04, 2003 09:49 PM UIN: 23443678
Ok oil 20/50 castrol change every 2 races. Water weter didnt work. When i ran a gas motor i used dura lube and saw a drop of 30 degrees oil and 10 in water on average. Is it good for motor not sure but helpped with heat a bit but havnt used it in 4 years. The dish soap thing funny story behind it but make sure you have a good cooling system if you put it in a street car it will open any and all holes!! what does the rp cost per quart? Think if i can go 4 races on it ill use it...same cost as reg with 2 week changes.

HRT187
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 173
posted March 05, 2003 01:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sdhnc29:
dirtbuster ,

HRT187 ,

Save your money on those oil changes , and follow what I recommended above . Amzoil is a descent oil , but if you compare load rate chart's , you will see that Mobil 1 and Royal Purple rate much higher. You can call all of the oil manufacturers , and they will send data sheet's to you , and you can compare .

Steve


Ok I haven't been able to get anything out of Mobil/Exxon about their product. I guess enough people buy it that I don't matter. I have noticed that the mobil is like water when I drain it... I'm about to tear down the first engine from last year that was run exclusively on Mobil 1.

My next question is, does that load test give the best rating of an oil? What about the 4-ball wear test, or thermal related tests. Seems like Amsoil blows Mobil 1 away in those. Same with contamination.


I appreciate the experienced answers though Steve. I'm just trying to make heads or tales of the data that I can find.

dirtbuster
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 353
posted March 05, 2003 09:34 AM
dirtracer:

The regualar automotive royal purple synthetic runs around 5$/qt
The Royal Purple racing oil is more like 8$/qt.

dirtracer14
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 499
posted March 05, 2003 11:08 AM UIN: 23443678
Is there a diff in the racing or is the over the counter good to use?

dirtbuster
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 353
posted March 05, 2003 12:14 PM
Steve,

I have heard from a local engine builder that synthetic oil almost works too well and causes problems with lifters. He was saying that because it is so slippery they were having trouble with flat tappets not spinning in their bores and rollers that would skid along the cam instead of rolling and cause wear on the cam. In an 8 qt pan he recommended running 1-2 qts dino oil and the rest synthetic so that the dino oil would make it sticky enough to spin lifters properly.

Do you have any experience with this? or whats your opinion on it?

HRT187
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 173
posted March 05, 2003 01:38 PM
If they are skidding there is less friction than it would take to roll it and there wouldn't be anything to cause wear.

JAW
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 6
posted March 05, 2003 04:03 PM
We have used Moly-Slip for years or Mr.Moly in the U.S.
We tried Mobil,were sponsered by Amsoil for a couple years but with all are tests and experence we'll stick with the Moly in the engine and with there sprays and other lubes.
Have A Nice Day

fastrack1
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 73
posted March 05, 2003 07:29 PM
WELL I MUST SAY I THINK WE HAVE OPEN SOME DOORS THAT MAYBE HAS HELPED SEVERAL PEOPLE AND ANSWERED SOME QUESTIONS BUT WHAT IS FUNNY IS THE MOBIL SYN OIL THING I HAD A ANOTHER RACER FRIEND BUILD A NEW ENGINE AND WITH A NEW CAM ETC THE RAN 10 LAPS MAYBE WIPED OUT SEVERAL LOBES /FLATTENED LIFTERS ALSO THIS ENGINE HAD A FRAM HP4 FILTER NOW DID THEY BOTH CAUSE THIS PROBLEM AND ON A DIFFERENT ENGINE SOMEONE ELSE WAS RUNNING MOBIL AND FLATTENED THE FUEL PUMP ROD ANY BODY SEEN THIS THANKS

Racer X
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 63
posted March 05, 2003 07:51 PM
Did your friend start the new motor on the syn oil or did he break it in on regular oil?We made the mistake years ago by putting syn oil in with a new cam and lifters.It ran the hot laps and flatend just about every lobe on the cam.I remember a long time ago Smokey Yunick said he didn't like running syn oil with solid lifters for that same reason stated in the above post, but I know of alot of people that run it with no problems

Flatlander
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 310
posted March 05, 2003 08:43 PM
well as being cost effective if I'm running a claimer class I'm not running a 25000$ motor and by the time you change a wet sump 8Qts if you buy any good oil and pay 20$ for an additive you 've already spent more than buying the Syn. to begin with

sdhnc29
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 467
posted March 05, 2003 08:48 PM
Racer X ,

I can't tell you for sure , I don't have any info on the 20/50 compatibility with alky . You might want to contact RP , and ask this question to them .

HRT187 ,

I have seen the "ball load test" , performed in person (not a cheated up test , preformed by an independent party) on Royal Purple , Mobil 1 , Amzoil , and Redline . The result's of the test that I viewed , had these oil's finishing in this same order . I have not looked at Amzoil or Mobil 1 literature in several year's , so I'll take your word for what their result's show . But , the spec sheet's that I had , and might still have if I dug deep enough , show Mobil 1 outperforming Amzoil . Since I don't have any hard core data figures to present , all I can say is that Mobil 1 and RP are the predominant oil's being used in WC at this time . So I must assume that Cup team's have done more than just homework on this subject . As for your oil pouring out like water , don't worry , viscosity does not have much relevance when dealing with synthetic oil .

dirtbuster ,

I have heard these stories time and time again . I have yet to figure out if these stories came from non synthetic motor oil manufactures , or someone just dreaming up thing's about synthetic oil to cover a mistake they made . At any rate , I've heard this a lot ! The truth is actually the exact opposite . Off hand , I'd say that if they had a problem with lifter's not rotating , this was most likely caused from the lifter bore's not being centered (which is common in stock block's), lifter bore's too tight (which is common in aftermarket block's), faulty lifter's (which I saw a few bad set's last year , oversized and egg shaped), or forward cam thrust that centered 1 or 2 lobes under the lifter bore's . As for the roller lifter's skidding , this is the funniest part of the story !!! Most often what you will find when a roller cam is torn up on the nose , which is where most every one of these stories places the cam wear , is a severe case of valve float that has been occurring , or a cam billet that has not had the proper heat treating resulting in pitting . At any rate , these stories are usually told by people who know they made a mistake somewhere , and simply blame the oil .

fastrack1 ,

I'd have to say the same as above for the flat cam . He could have also had a soft cam . The only time I've seen fuel pump rod's get ruined , is when people with roller cam's don't use a bronze tipped push rod .


Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780

dirtbuster
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 353
posted March 05, 2003 09:48 PM
Steve as always it is great to have someone with your experience provide input on these issues. Thanks for all helpful information you have provided.

I do have 1 more question on the RP 21 and 41 oil. I saw that the 21 is typical of a 5W30 viscosity, and the 41 a 10w40. Those both seem really light when compared to the 20w50 and straight 50 that i hear and see most guys running. Does the 21 really work as well as the heavier oils in protecting the internals? Do you need to build engines differently (i.e. tighter) to run that light?

sdhnc29
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 467
posted March 05, 2003 10:47 PM
The 21 is definitely a very light weight oil ! But when we are speaking about synthetic's , then viscosity does not matter much at all . What matter's most is how well the oil bond's with the surface that it protecting . After speaking with a RP engineer , I was told that the molecular structure of the synthetic oil is such , that it protects the internal part's of an engine many time's better than standard oil with a much , much lighter viscosity . The load carrying capacity of the oil is far more important than the viscosity . Now I'm no rocket scientist or chemist by any means , simply an engine builder who must stand behind the engines that he build's . Up until 1993 we used Kendall 20w/50 in our own house car , and recommended it to our customer's as well . When Shaver first turned us on to RP , and I actually picked up a sponsorship from them as well , I tried the 21 in my own engine first . I must admit that it scared to cr@p out of me when I first poured this oil in my engine !!! But after speaking with the RP engineer , I was slightly less hesitant to try it . Needless to say , the result's were awesome and the rest is history . As for building the engine tighter , no this is not recommended or necessary . On your average wet sump engine , with proper clearances , you will notice about a 5-10lb drop in oil pressure over a 20w/50 oil , depending on oil temp. On our SB2.2 357ci dirt late model engines , we only run 50lb oil pressure at full throttle (9,000 rpm) using synthetic's . On the wet sump engines , they will run between 50-55 lbs (with high volume pump) at full throttle using synthetic's . So other than a little lower oil pressure , and feeling like your pouring colored water in your engine , you will be good to go with the lighter weight synthetic oil .

I hope that everyone understands that is reading these post's , that I am NOT a Royal Purple or Mobil 1 spokesperson , in fact I do not sell oil of any type at or away from my business . I'm simply passing on information that I have found to be true from my own testing on engine dyno's , in my own car , in customer's engines, and from what I have learned throughout the year's . Hope it help's someone out !!

Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780

HRT187
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 173
posted March 06, 2003 07:34 AM
Here's a graph of the test I was talking about. Of course this is from an Amsoil site so I have no idea of the objectivity of it. I also read a bunch of stuff about Mobil1 not being a synthetic, mostly on the molecular level. I guess in Europe Mobil1 can't be marketed as a synthetic, same as Castrol.


Now if the "wear test" says that Amsoil is that much better than Mobil 1? I did notice that none of the big dog synthetic racing oils were on there. RP/RedLine/Schaeffer

Same disclaimer as Steve, I don't sell any oil or try to talk people out of any. Just trying to help myself and others sort through the facts that are out there.

HRT187
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 173
posted March 06, 2003 07:35 AM
BTW Great thread guys! Keep it up

RACEINMUD
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 76
posted March 06, 2003 09:09 AM
Do you use dino oil to break in a motor then go to syn? Thanks!

dirtbuster
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 353
posted March 06, 2003 09:20 AM
Steve,

We currently are using mobil1 15w50 in our mod engine and with a standard volume oil pump we get about 50-55# oil pressure. Does that mean that if we went to the RP21 we would drop more pressure? Should we run a HV oil pump then. What are your feelings on the HV pumps, some say they are not necessary, others say they wont hurt a thing?

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 5556
posted March 06, 2003 09:23 AM UIN: 16262997
I have not tried Royal Purple or several of the other brands, but I have run Cramac....I was thoroughly impressed. We broke this last motor in with 20w 50 castrol and then changed over to Cramac after break in. I was completely sold after that. 300 RPM adjustment had to be made at idle. The motor acted like we took the trasmission off of it. It is synthetic as well, but I tell ya, it works...and it gives you some cheap horses. Like I said, I haven't run those other products, but I don't think I need to now. This oil started at the first of the feature idling at 50 lbs and came in at the end of the feature idling about 45. Oil temps were lowered significantly and wear and bearing life increased dramatically. Just scratching my head at the validity of this stuff. If you need more info...contact KPlugnut about it..he is the one that put me on to it. I will let you know about the next break in on this little 383 we are puttin in next.

jammin

worldcom
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47
posted March 06, 2003 11:55 AM
If we have run the engine on regular oil does it matter if we just up and change to a synthetic? You say 4 to 6 shows on the oil, how many laps?

Thanks

dirtbuster
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 353
posted March 06, 2003 01:14 PM
worldcom,

We use conventional oil to break the engine in and maybe run 1 or 2 nights on it. Then drain and switch to synthetic and run the rest of the year changing every 4-6 nights. Generally 30-35 lapstotal per night, hot laps, heat, and feature.

sdhnc29
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 467
posted March 06, 2003 06:51 PM
HRT187 ,

Interesting graph ! Now you've got me wanting to hunt down my spec sheet's for these different oil's ....LOL Here is an interesting fact for you . The guy who invented Mobil 1 , is the same guy who got PO'd at them , and created his own oil ..... Royal Purple . He may have made a few improvement's

RACEINMUD ,

On our wet sump flat tappet engines we tell our customer's to break in the engine with any brand of regular oil , and drain it before racing , and pour in the synthetic . On our dry sump roller cam engines , where the filtration system is much better , we have them start the engine and run the engine with synthetic oil .

dirtbuster ,

You will see only a slight variation in oil pressure switching to the 21 , probably 5lbs or less in a 8 quart system . Yes I recommend high volume oil pump's , and use them in every wet sump engine that we build . I do not however suggest using a high pressure oil pump !

jammin ,

I think most people will see some of these same result's with any of the lighter weight synthetic oil's . So you have given another testament to making the switch

worldcom ,

With most all of the synthetic's that I know of , you can simply switch oil's with no problems . The lap count on the oil is figured about the same as dirtbuster's reply .

Steve


------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 5556
posted March 06, 2003 09:49 PM UIN: 16262997
Yeah Steve, this is 15w 40 I am running....pretty thin, but I think that is one of the things that helps the cooling, getting the volume of oil circulating to cool down the parts.

jammin

justin
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 167
posted March 06, 2003 10:41 PM
Steve, I have been contemplating whether to run AMSOIL syn or the Mobil 1 syn so I went to the AMSOIL website and found these test results. http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/amsoil_vs_mobil1.htm
It basically says that AMSOIL outperformed Mobil 1 in all the tests. What do you think about these results and the validity of them? Just curious. Thanks for your help. I know your getting a lot of questions on this topic but I'm sure we all appreciate it. Thanks again.

Justin

HRT187
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 173
posted March 07, 2003 02:42 PM
I'm in the same boat as you Justin, I like being able to join the pyramid scam as well. I mean, getting Dealer pricing and maybe being able to make a few bucks moving this stuff on the internet should be worth while.

sdhnc29
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 467
posted March 07, 2003 06:37 PM
justin and HRT187 ,

To be quite honest , I'm a skeptic when it come to advertising , and "fact's" that are stated in advertising . We have done a ton of product testing throughout the year's , and I'd say that less than 50% of these product's actually lived up to what was advertised . This same skepticism carry's over to what you will read in magazine articles about tested product's , and know for a fact that most of these articles are rigged toward the companies who advertise in the magazine . In fact , one of our articles that was in Hot Rod and Car Craft magazines was altered by the publisher to favor a certain Edelbrock intake manifold that we tested , and found out that it was inferior to the other brand intake that we tested .

I with my dad on this subject (Amzoil)earlier today . He reminded me of some dyno testing that he did for a customer of ours about twelve year's ago . Our customer just so happened to be one of these pyramid dealers like HRT187 was referring to . My dad told me that they tested Kendall 20w/50 on the dyno in our customer's engine , and then the customer switched the oil to Amzoil . Believe this or not , my dad said that the Kendall produced more horsepower at the exact same oil temp. as the Amzoil . Now we are only speaking about a few horse power here , but this was the result of the testing that he did . He also reminded me that he had tested the RP and the Mobil 1 , and both showed a 2% - 2.5% gain over the Kendall 20w/50 . But giving Amzoil the benefit of the doubt , they may very possibly have changed there formula's in the last twelve year's .

Once again , I have got to refer back to the Winston Cup team's and all of the R&D work that they perform . I would have to believe that if Amzoil was so much better than Mobil 1 or RP , then every single team would be using it . It's difficult for me to look past that fact .

I'm glad so many people are taking an interest in this subject !!! And I hope that those who read this topic will gain from it . You all would be amazed at the people who will come into my shop , flop down $30,000 for a brand new all aluminum engine , and then complain about $$$$$$$$$ when I advise them to use the Mobil 1 or the RP . Sometimes I would have better luck trying to pull out there teeth !! But , if I convince them to switch , they never go back , and they enjoy the $$$$$$$$ saving's when it comes time to freshen their engine .

Steve


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Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780

justin
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 167
posted March 07, 2003 07:10 PM
Thanks for your input Steve, I appreciate it.

Justin

WPP
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 220
posted March 11, 2003 08:44 AM
I wish i had not read this post i run kendal 20-50 on alky and i also have used the pro blend i have not any engine problems and turn 7500 to 7800 i guess i will call the engine builder but i do change the oil every week but you start adding 10.00 filters every week and oil what will be the differce in a month with kendal and rp


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