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Author Topic:   So frustrated it hurts...
dode
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 417
posted March 29, 2002 01:26 PM UIN: 13209501
Ok...I just need to vent a little. I help out a friend of mine with his factory stock. The rules are cast iron factory heads, 9:1 compression with flat tops, any cam, cast iron intake. Fairly common rules. Well, so what does he have on there right now? Milled 601 casting 305 heads with small valves. Well, the shop that did his work (there is a long post on here about that too where he just got bent over to the tune of like $1300 for a tear down and put together) convinced him that he should run these heads because they are good "race" heads, and took his double humps. Then, he tells my friend that he won't have any problems with tech because they only tech the top 5 or whatever, and he is somehow convinced that he won't finish high. I keep asking him why the **** he has spent like $5000 on a FACTORY STOCK and doesn't think he can win. The thing is that the **** engine is running 11.1 compression (the heads had to be milled because they weren't flat, so I figured they took off .010), and the starter will barely crank the engine over. These idiots (including the shop) think the starter is bad (it is brand new and the third one that has been on there so far...put this in perspective...the shop didn't even know how to shim a sbc starter). My friend is all ****ed off and frustrated that he can't get his car running, and I have a set of 882's that just need a little work and some hardware, and they will be ready to go, but he doesnt' want to "waste" the money even though they will come it at 9:1 compression. I want to walk away and say forget about it, but I don't have my own car yet, and I have the "addiction". Anyway, I just really needed to vent. Does anyone have any advice for me? This is more frustrating for me than for him I think...

John

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 458
posted March 29, 2002 02:39 PM
John, There isn't a whole lot you can do about your friend wanting to be a cheater.

As for the new motor not turning over....I would think there is something wrong inside the motor......a stock starter should crank over a 13 to 1 compression motor.....

That's all I used for years, and I ran lot's of compression. Don't go telling your friend anything like what I am saying, He will only disagree and be upset.....then when HE finds out the truth he will be upset again...........

I will tell you one thing, You should keep a STOCK motor laying around. That's what will help your friend, after the first night I would be willing to bet your friend will need a new motor. Some people WON'T accept help, and some people don't know who is telling the truth and who is B.S.ing them...You friend is convinced his engine builder is standing on the balcony with the Pope every Sunday at the vadican. If his engine builder told him he could buy his engine and walk on water he would die from a lung full of water. There is nothing that will change your friends mind, EXCEPT that motor........when that thing doesn't run he will deal with the engine builder a few more time trying to get the issues resolved. In the end he will be on this board learning what is correct.

There is NO sense in you argueing with a friend, it will only upset and strain your friendship...........just be there for him when he figures it all out. Not with I told you so..............but, a geeee that's too bad........well, I still got them heads and a stock short block, lets just put something to go run and make some laps....

I agree that engine builder is a piece of art........spend $5000 and don't worry about getting caught cheating because you won't be in the top 5 anyway........THAT STATEMENT SHOULD MAKE A MAN THINK ABOUT THE ENGINE BUILDER...............SAY THAT SLOW 10 TIMES TO YOUR FRIEND................

Jeff

dode
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 417
posted March 29, 2002 02:48 PM UIN: 13209501
Well, I will say this, I know for sure that the engine runs, as it has been run at the shop before supposedly. It turns over, but I mean barely. Anyway, funny you should mention the stock motor...I actually have a 60 over shortblock in my garage right now...

I just hate being like that. I don't think my friend wants to cheat (it isn't like those heads are really going to make him much power with the tiny valves), but he just wants it to run. His dad used to be a big sprint car driver, and he actually died in a wreck during a race. That is why he is kinda wanting to get into this I think.

One other thing that I have just played with really is that where would you even set the timing at to get it going on an 11:1 motor? I set it at 8 degrees initial, just trying to get it started. Do I need to go more or less? Part of the reason that I don't think it will turn over fast enough is that the cam isn't very big. You can make up some for compression with a big cam. Oh, and I know the motor is plenty free because if you pull the spark plugs, the thing turns over like nobody's business.

Thanks for the advice!!

John

Gene
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 230
posted March 29, 2002 03:37 PM
Like Jeff said "a stock starter should turn the engine over". I agree that something is too tight in the engine. I'd pull the engine and take it to another shop for a tear down and inspection. I would guess that a decent shop would charge 300 bucks for that. Cheap insurance! What it will cost to put it back together is dependent upon what the shop finds wrong.

Racer14K
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 247
posted March 29, 2002 04:10 PM
John, does it have a ground cable from the engine to the frame. If not then I would put one on there, if there is I would make sure both connections are clean and tight. I have come across this more then once where the engine was not grounded properly and the engine would crank over real slow.Good luck.

Loren

dode
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 417
posted March 29, 2002 04:31 PM UIN: 13209501
I believe there is, but I will check for sure. Thanks.

John

Flatlander
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 310
posted March 29, 2002 04:43 PM
Just for info I ground my heads to the frame and block I had a problem with a misfire once and solved it this way so ever since It's been done also you can wire the starter and distrib. seperately to help hot cranking but like the prev posts say it should start without a prob.

sdhnc29
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 467
posted March 29, 2002 05:52 PM
Jeff gave you very good advice ! Your buddy sure got bent on the head deal though ! Any shop that tells you that 305 heads are better race head's than double humper's , is either our to shaft someone , or they are ignorant . Just don't forget to tell your friend , " I told you so !". LOL

dirtracer14
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 499
posted March 29, 2002 11:12 PM UIN: 23443678
there is another thing to look at is the battery? It may have been fine with a 9.1 motor but now with the comp you may need more. If you hook a charger to it will it fire over? I got a brand new battery once and it didnt have enough Cranking amps...it had lots of cold cranking just not cranking. Somthing to look at. Later,Craig

dode
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 417
posted March 30, 2002 08:57 AM UIN: 13209501
Yeah, I checked the battery. It isn't great, but I hooked my brand new optima up in its place once, and it did the exact same thing. I think I finally convinced him last night to get a set of 882's machined and put together. I know they aren't the greatest heads, but they will make 9:1 compression with the right gaskets, and they do actually flow some decent numbers. Thanks for letting me vent guys.

John

wam24u
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 66
posted April 01, 2002 07:02 PM
John, 1st of all I spent 5000.00 at my engine builder, I would have to worry like heck at the end of the feature, cause sure as heck wouldn't be out the top 5.
2nd, not to sound like a jerk, but you do not havw degree wheel and KNOW how to use it,set your cam strait up.(align crank and timing gear. (let me know if you are using a 3 key way crank gear. Trust me , if you get it going it will last 2or 3 laps. I made the same mistake and had it lined up on the wrong gear and the valves hit the top of the pistons.
This could also be causing your slow cranking, mine did the same thing,plus my Dist was off a little too.
Try this before you go spending money on another overhaul.

bbchs
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 30
posted April 06, 2002 09:15 PM
Sorry about getting in this post so late. Like the other posts said a stock starter will work fine. On the slow cranking try cranking the engine without the coil hooked up. If the engine cranks o.k. then it isn't a starter problem. It is an ignition timing problem. Too much advance, the spark is trying to stop the pistons before they get to the top. You can run alot of advance but you have to have a push button, toggle ignition. You have to get the engine turning by the push button then flip the ignition and it should start.

Good luck Chuck

Eljojo
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 273
posted April 07, 2002 08:47 PM
Dode---when I get the "feeling" something is wrong (usually in my gut) I MAKE myself stop and find out what it is. If there is a small voice in the back of your head saying something like "mebbe this isn't the smartest thing I've ever done", you may want to listen!
Warm24 is probably right. You guys have got something way out of whack. I suspect it's valve timing too. When that engine finally does fire---it'll make a sound like it's fireing way down deep inside (I've had the misfortune) At that piont you can pull the carb and put the lift plate back on---you've probably bent a valve or two and you'll be shopping for pushrods and maybe pistons.
That voice will be just a hair louder now and I can't post what it will be saying!
Good luck. Last bit of free advice I'd like to give is: have fun. There ain't been a motor built that was ever worth a friend.

Flatlander
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 310
posted April 07, 2002 10:17 PM
Very good advice Eljojo

doug
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 28
posted April 09, 2002 10:32 PM
You want to ract to bad, if you dont do smothing about it now befor race seson.Take it from me if anything take it apart dont throw dice with your motor .the buzzard7

doug
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 28
posted April 09, 2002 10:34 PM
You want to ract to bad, if you dont do smothing about it now befor race seson.Take it from me if anything take it apart dont throw dice with your motor .the buzzard7

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