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Author Topic:   overheating Question
Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted December 17, 2001 07:45 PM
Was wondering if changing the rear ratio would help engine overheating??? We are turning between 8500 and 9000 rpm and engine overheats bad.. We are running a 292 ford with a 6.00 gear--if we gear down will this aid in cooling us down a little??? We have lots of power so no to concerned about losing a bit of power.. Thanks in advance.

Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted December 17, 2001 07:46 PM
Sorry we are running on quartet mile dirt track if this helps...

sgt
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 2
posted December 17, 2001 09:40 PM
well I have an answer to your question, and also another question...LoL 1st: if you were to lower the gear ratio(lower number) the result would be loading the engine more, thus creating more heat. 2 at that kind of RPM, I am curious as to what type of fan you R running? if it is a flex type fan, most would not blow out a candle at that RPM... let us know..

Gene
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 230
posted December 18, 2001 05:02 PM
As sgt said "got some questions too". Back in '63, I had a '57 Ford with a 292 in it, you aint runnin' an old Y block are you? If you are, your tack is set for a 6cly, and you aint getting the rpms you think you are. If you aint blew the motor up yet the carb must be close, so I'd tend to believe your problem is waterpump related. If the driver can run a few laps at 6500 rpn and it dosent get hot, the pump is spinning faster than the impeller can push the water into the block. Slow it down to 50% of crank speed and see if it helps.

Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted December 20, 2001 10:12 PM
Hey guys we are running the old steel fan for now to try and cure the problem--it is a 17 in fan and we installed a shroud with the fan about half way in and half way outsie the shroud...

The engine block I'm not sure at this time what year it is but has been built for alcahol(ms) and we have converted it to run B mod gas. It run gr888 with alcahol and overheats bad on gas and the 2 barrel. We installed a 650 carb with no help.

I'm not sure bout the Y block as I'm new to ford engines--I used to run chevys--lol but my son has the ford. Dang thing is very fast but heating scares me??

Water pump is only thing we haven't changed--what size pulleys should we be runnin?? Help

thanks in advance---Wheels

Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted December 20, 2001 10:13 PM
Would not going to 5.63 or around that area not slow down the rpm's???

ford5
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 298
posted December 20, 2001 11:05 PM
wheels you mite be runnin too much timing at that rpm and besides thats way too much rpm, is your clutch or trans slipping ,or are you just roastin' your tires? whats sizes are your 2 pulleys in relationship to each other?

jdukes74
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 37
posted December 21, 2001 07:37 AM
Maybe you need to figure out how your turning 9000 rpms. on a quarter mile track with a 6.00 gear. I'm not calling you a liar I just think your tack is off or your not hooking up somehow. get those r's down and u might solve your problem.( My bet is your fan or your water pump is not effective at this speed, neither will your rods be for long.)

Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted December 21, 2001 06:49 PM
Well I hope you are right about the tach being wrong. We are new to this racing and have a lot to learn. jduke74 I have no reason to lie about this as i'm searching for ways to cure the problem. The tach in the car has hit 9500 rpm at times and yes the tires are smoking when it gets there. I will look at the water pump and pulleys and check these out.

I guess my original question is a stumper as I don't see much info on it. Can't I lower the rpms some by changing rearend? Maybe i'm wrong but i would think it would efect rpms a lot .

and by the way-- the 292 has been bored to 40 over which I believe makes it around a 342??

Thanks for the info and questions

redneck bubbas racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 213
posted December 21, 2001 11:16 PM
You really are new to all this huh wheels. Whenever you have a block bored 40 over it doesn't mean it adds 40 cubic inches, it adds .040 to the cylinder. This would probably make your motor 296-298 cubic inches. I would really be interested in finding out what motor you do have. I just can not see a 292 Y block motor going that many rpms. I would like to suggest to you to get with the guy that sold you this car. Have him help you figure all of this stuff out. Even if you have to pay the man he OWES you some help. Continue to read and post on this board and others(**, whowon,war tech pages, rpm.net) Get some of the Steve Smith books and just general engine books. Find you a local shop that will let you "help" out. Do simple stuff for them. Clean tools, sweep, make parts runs. You will start to learn what does what and why. Then start doing light work for them-oil changes, spark plug changes, starter and water pump replacements. Just working on a Hyundai that has absolutely nothing to do with a race car will help you. If you are going to be in racing you need to learn what's going on. The more knowledge that you have the better off you will be. I am in no way trying to put you down, I am trying to lift you up and help you. Any help that I can give you I will be happy to share, my e-mail is listed or use this board so others can help too. Kenneth

Gene
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 230
posted December 22, 2001 06:06 AM
Wheels, have another driver with some experance run your car for some hot laps. Some of what you are telling us just doesnt add up. With a driver that has a grasp of reality in reguards to RPMs and carb controll you will then have the correct info to correct your problems. And save a lot of money. ie.. it's unreal that you can twist a e-mod 9000rpm and it doesnt blow up. 40 grand sprint car engines can only do that for an instant, not e-mod engines.

dirttracker98
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 139
posted December 22, 2001 10:36 AM
What kind of restrictor are you running in the thermostat housing,if you ain't running one that may be the problem,also is it a new radiator.

Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted December 23, 2001 09:06 AM
Dirttracker98--- yes we are running a restrictor in the therm housing. We bought a kit and have tried all of them. Then we put a thermostat in, with the center taken out and still no help.

Redneck racing--- as you stated in your post i sure have a lot to learn.. I'm not totally ignorant on engines but really don't know much at all about High speed engines. I'm reading up on some of it now but my there is alot to absorb. I have torned down and rebuilt a few stock engines in my day but never fooled around much with all the high speed stuff. It's pretty exciting but I have lots to learn. Thx for your post.

sideways
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 273
posted December 23, 2001 10:09 AM
Welcome to the world of racing,Wheels!I do agree with the rest of the guys find a"freind"in racing that knows their stuff.They will help you get on track.You have come to the right place for the Q&A thing,these guys will help beyond the ordinary and the basics.Just keep your head up,it will happen for you and your son.Have fun!Be safe!

Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted December 23, 2001 10:19 AM
By the Way did I mention that if we figure this heating problem out that my son will be shooting for a top 5 finish next year (In his first full year of driving). Wow this is exciting--lol

Thanks sideways -- Head is up and we will figure this out.

thanks Wheels

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 458
posted December 23, 2001 12:12 PM
Here is something I just thought of.....
Could the tack be messed up to the point that it is messing up the distributor???? thus not enough voltage to run the ignition?

I would unhook the tack, ask a person to help get the car going in the right direction as far as gears, tranny, and tires. This will get you CLOSE to the coreect RPM's........and NOT worry about the tack for now..........

I have had this above mentioned tack problem in a modified a few years ago.........Just another thing to look at...........

oldgold
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 36
posted December 24, 2001 09:18 AM
292 y blocks most generally cant take much rpm over 6800 as the oiling system is poorly designed. i think you need to take a look at the tach and maybe borrow somebodys telltale tach. slow your water pump speeds down as if you are turning 9000 rpm you are turning the pump 15,000 rpm with stock pulleys rick

oldgold
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 36
posted December 24, 2001 09:22 AM
something i forgot is if it is a ford 292 it will have 2 bolts holding down the valve covers and the distributor will be in the right front at a angle Rick

ZIGGY
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 25
posted December 24, 2001 06:39 PM
Oldgold: Ever see a Y-block with floating rod bearings? Had a 312 originally built for Nascar 'Grand National' use that had been modified for them. As I recollect it used bearings from a '48 flathead. Takes me back. Glad somebody still races Y-blocks.

Dirt-Tracker
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 60
posted December 27, 2001 10:41 PM
Looks like I need to clear a few things up here. First of all, Wheels47 is my father who is a great helper but has slight memory loss. So bare with him....
Im running a Ford 347....302 stroked. We run on a high banked 3/8 track. Never been in a race car until August of this year. We have approximately 25 cars a night in my class. I had several top 6 finishes in the main but no wins......hoping that changes next year. It is just a thrill to be on the track after several years of just watching. This thing is heating up badly. I think we've tried everything except changing water pumps. Since we run in the B-Mod class we have to run 2 barrel carb. We have a Holley 500. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!!!

Stans2411
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 12
posted December 27, 2001 11:36 PM
I think you should start by reducing the rpm's 7200 to 7800 would be max for me and with the 500 cfm carb that could be a stretch. Next I would make sure the water pump drive belt is not slipping. If the water pump has been replaced is it the correct pump (late model serpentine pumps are made to turn reverse, couter clockwise).
If the engine has been appart since running achohol theres a chance one or both head gaskets could be installed wrong. This many rpms with the gearing that's listed is way more than i'm use to seeing, is there anything slipping other than the tires(clutch?)? Just some ideas, good luck.

Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted December 28, 2001 08:09 PM
Ut oh my son has found this thread--lol He will help keep me straight. hehe he told me to forget about top 5 cause he was going for the win.

Back to work now--- I have many things on here that we need to check out and we will do these. any other suggestion just keep them coming...I will print this off after discussions slow down and use it for reference to take to the shop..

only place we haven't gone is to the water pump as the engine was hard to get to 180 when it was on alcahol so we just figured it was ok... thats my next step is to check it out.

The distributor is on the front right but is setting straight up. not at an angle . nothing seems to be slipping except the tires when he gets on it coming out of turns.. maybe a little shock or spring adjutment is needed to help stop the tire spin so bad..

Thanks much all and as son said bare with me as we learn more about this grrr888 piece of happiness--lol

Wheels47
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted December 28, 2001 08:16 PM
one more quick question---agian!!! If we chnge gears to like a 5.67 from the 6.00 won't that slow down our rpms(if our tach is correct. also we are running the tach from the msd box--could this be giving us a bad reading on rpm??? thanks all for your responses.. wheels

Stans2411
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 12
posted December 28, 2001 11:29 PM
The engine you have described is a standard 302 windsor. Changing the gear to a 5:67 or 5:43 will lower your rpms. Still need to determine actual engine rpms. Are you running the car in high gear? How much reduction in the water pump? Glad to help if I can.

Dirt-Tracker
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 60
posted December 29, 2001 08:13 PM
Yes the engine is a 302 Windsor...stroked to 347. I am definetely in high gear. Not sure on the water pump reduction.

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