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Author Topic:   Welding the advance in a distributor
jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted February 04, 2001 12:17 PM UIN: 16262997
Have any of you guys done this. I have heard of some guys doing it, to make sure the timing stays correct and consistent.....anyone else heard of this?

ststock4
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 18
posted February 04, 2001 12:24 PM
Most of the cars at my track weld the advance in at about 28 degrees. It is done for just the reasons you stated. I had my distributor locked in, cost me about $150. My engine builder also recommended it.

iaracer
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 59
posted February 04, 2001 12:42 PM
I welded mine and have had no problems for 1.5 years.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 219
posted February 04, 2001 12:44 PM
Yes, People do this all the time, and for the reason you stated.......you break a pin and the timing is messed up and melts a motor for you.......things like this happen every week at the local level.......
Put the advance plate in the center of it's travel, then weld in place......this is called phasing the distributor.......this is to get the pick-up points in the distributor lined up at the same time the rotor is pointed at the post for the plug wire.....It will work fine without phasing but the life of the cap and rotor will be shorter....
The only thing is you need to spin the motor over before turning the ignition on to fire the motor.........IF YOU DON'T THE MOTOR WON'T START AND COULD DAMAGE THE STARTER/FLYWHEEL..........
Some people out there my not have the ignition wired to do this and may need to rewire the starter panel.........Jeff

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted February 04, 2001 03:13 PM UIN: 16262997
Why would it matter where you set the advance before you weld it since your just setting the timing statically anyway?

Once you set it, it is there. You will not have to bring the RPM's up on the motor to set it either.


BK19
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 97
posted February 04, 2001 03:54 PM UIN: 40696038
i weld mine i just pull the rod all the way out or push it in really so it is at full advance then weld it; then just time my engine to what it needs to be set at like 36 degrees

widebody
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 74
posted February 04, 2001 05:27 PM
They make locking kits that do the same thing as welding the advance. They can also be found in early 80's distributors. The factory used little plastic locking plates. I wouldnt recomend this piece. The aftermarket kits are cheap.
Does anyone modify the rotors for better alignments, Ive seen this but have never tried it. I know it make the rotor allign better to the cap and provides a better spark path, but is it worth it?
(pour attempt at art work)
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Pit Bull
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 42
posted February 04, 2001 08:58 PM
What company manufactures the timing advance lock? Im interested in changing mine to full lock, and this kit interests me. Thanks.

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 219
posted February 04, 2001 09:24 PM
Jammin, I thought the same thing.....I brought this subject up at a different site about this time last year.
I did go to other sites BEFORE I found this great place.........anyway, It was explained to me.......and if you don't phase the advance plate before welding, the rotor will not be pointing straight at the post in the cap when the pick-up for the ignition fires........this will make the current have to jump from the rotor to the post in the cap.......loosing some of it's voltage, so the voltage drops at the plugs.......also because this spark jumps in the cap the life of cap and rotor are shortened.........THAT'S HOW THE GUY EXPLAINED IT TO ME..........
I thought it wouldn't hurt to do it his way.
other people joined in on the post and said the same thing??????? so I thought they are smarter then me........I never took the time to prove they are right or not......I did it their way and had no problems......
Jeff

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted February 04, 2001 11:33 PM UIN: 16262997
I went out and took an old hei apart to look at this....the gear on the bottom of a distributor moves the advance plate....not the rotor plate....when the springs and weights advance in a distributor, then rotor plate moves from the original position, not the advance plate.....the rotor plate and the pickup are on the same part.....they move together......I doesnt matter where you weld it at. It stays in line with the rotor(same piece) reguardless on an Hei. It took me two trips to the shop to see it...LOL

jammin

chomme
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 52
posted February 06, 2001 01:13 AM UIN: 1986763
Hey All --

Just a thought...cause I used to run my distributors locked. Even if the advance spring breaks, if you timed your motor at full advance, it would never advance past what your full timing was. Sure, the motor might run bad, but it won't melt anything down. I curve my own distributors, and you can ask anyone that runs against us...we are as fast or faster than anyone out there. We run an HEI with a chip and a aftermarket coil in it...and about 12 degrees initial and 38 degrees at 3000RPM.

Hope this helps for some of you!

--Chad

quote:
Originally posted by jammin:
Have any of you guys done this. I have heard of some guys doing it, to make sure the timing stays correct and consistent.....anyone else heard of this?

whel
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 30
posted February 06, 2001 08:38 AM
about what degree is everyone trying to run burning alcohol.

widebody
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 74
posted February 06, 2001 04:39 PM
good call jammin.
they make kits that phase the mechanical advance also, I think thats what jeff was refering to.

Ill find those lock kits, its been a while. I usually weld it and cut the vacuume pot off and RTV the area with a cap on and a piece of tape on the cap, when it dries take the tape off and it forms an exact fit plug. never have haad problems, but like you guys im checking this stuff now while i have the time.

jklostermann
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 45
posted February 06, 2001 08:54 PM
do mine like that ENGINE BUILDER RECOMMENDED IT

4ord
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 34
posted February 06, 2001 09:42 PM
It does make a difference where you weld the distributor up. If you don't believe it...take a jigsaw and cut the center out of an old dist. cap, and cut down an old rotor. Put these cut down parts on your dist. and check "phasing" of pick-up and alignment of rotor to cap terminals. We did this several years ago when we ran "locked" dist. Now run MSD Billet with lightest spring...all the way advanced at 2800 RPM.

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted February 06, 2001 10:51 PM UIN: 16262997
Looking at the HEI I was looking at....the pickup and the rotor mounting plate are all one piece. There is no way to change the location between the pickup and the rotor itself since it is all in one piece. Therefore, the rotor can not be out of alignment anywhere you weld it because the advance movment is indicated in the rotor/pickup movement.....not the advance plate/gear movement.

4ord
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 34
posted February 07, 2001 07:45 PM
Jammin,
The ones we used to modify were the older style with vacuum and mech. advance. Sounds like you have something different.

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted February 07, 2001 08:57 PM
Sounds like jammin has a newer model one. Where they use the computer to advance timing and not vacume or mechanical. Im kinda with chomme on this one. I use the curve kits. Then rev it to 4000rpm and set total advance. Have never had a problem either. Ever. I thought about welding one up one time, but was worried about the location you all are talking about. Also the thing is always at full advance, even when idling in the staging area. Like awkward said you will have to get motor turning over before you hit the power. I do this anyway with mine. It's just whatever you like. Both ways works good.....

Pit Bull
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 42
posted February 07, 2001 10:19 PM
Hey just for your info - I found one of those nifty kits to lock the distributer. They are about 20 bucks from Jeg's, and include all the parts needed to lock in the advance, and make everything line up correctly. I think Ill buy one of these, and if I ever want to go back to the curve kit method I can easily because I didnt use the ol lincoln welder. Hope this helps.

jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 3279
posted February 11, 2001 11:01 PM UIN: 16262997
I may try one of these too...If you dont spin the motor....I guess it just tries to kick back....correct?

awkwardjeff
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 219
posted February 13, 2001 12:32 PM
Jammin, That's correct........I've seen people break the start off the motor doing this, also seen the bolts get pulled out of the block..........either way it's going to run into money and time to fix either problem.
With a Tilton starter or one of the same kind you will bend the shaft inside the starter.........but it beats the heck out of the other things that could happen......the above problems were created buy running stock starters and not having them tight enough........in my opinion
Jeff

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