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Author Topic:   B-Mods in Houston Texas
Racer4
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted August 24, 2001 04:34 PM
This subject was started from the cancellation of IMCA mods at Gator Speedway. Pleas post comments or ideas or other B-mod rules.


Racer4
posted August 20, 2001 10:40 PM
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I know for a fact there are several racers like me in the Houston area who want to race modifieds. We don't want to run Limited Mods, and we don't have the wallet to run UMP. So, now would be the time for B-Mods in the Houston area. I was looking forward to putting together an IMCA Mod and I was shooting for next season, now that's toast. I have been there done that when it comes to a high cost class, and I don't like it when I get outrun solely by the almighty dollar. There is still a chance next year one of Houston's tracks might run IMCA, but it's highly doubtfull, so what do you guy's think? Will there be a chance for B-Mods to run in Houston? I don't know about you, but I feel four classes of full bodied cars competing at a track on a full time basis is a little ancient, especially when we now have Limited Mods, Dwarf Cars, and Sprints running as well with the UMP Modifieds. If nothing else, I would like to see a full bodied class running lower than 2700lbs!!


brownstone
posted August 21, 2001 10:13 AM
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Racer4
I agree with you, I would love to see something in between, UMP and limited mod. The limited mod would require me to sell out and start over, the limited mod would just be too restricted. B mods would be great, I wonder if a promoter could be convinced ? Do you have ideas for rules to govern the bmods ?
Something to restrict the outragous cost of engines would be a good start.



Racer4
posted August 21, 2001 12:33 PM
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I brought up B-Mods due to the fact they seem popular elsewhere. I would Rather see Houston invent a new class. Something like Stock Modifieds, based on the old Stock car classes, since it's a dying class anyway.
Take a Modified run the Stock car tire rule, have the Stock Car engine rule but have a cam limit like 488 (or less maybe 466) from the street stock's, 2 barrel for alcohol, Gas using 750 vac sec Holley, have a weight limit like 2550-2600 (that's a 700 pound saving's over running a Stock Car, pretty smart racing if you ask me) and run the 2.02 iron head 200cc rule. Dome piston's? Why not? you could use a dome instead of angle milling. Class Must have a Cam rule to work!

I believe this class would be just as fast as UMP's (well allmost) but for less money. I also believe an IMCA or stock car trans rule would also be necessary to save money. (I was tinkering around with my engine analyzer last night, did you know the Limited mod engine rule is capable of over 400hp?) If you keep a lower cam profile (6000rpm) you enable the engine builder to use stock 5.7 rods and cast crank for a chevy. So a rod rule might be necessary and feasable. Use a 355 or 360 cube limit, and maybe even offer up to 406 cubes to racers on 2 barrel gas only.

I think this class would create a great following due to how fast it can be, also due to the slightly higher weight limit the older Mod chassis could still be competetive, even a home built mod can easily compete in this class, hence saving more money for the Racer. 3 working brakes minumum, aluminum single piston allowed on front only. Also the higher weight opens up possiblilities for different engine combo's than the norm, some medium blocks might even come into use (ala Ford). No Camaro clips or Vette clips, same as reg modifieds.

Engine Claim? maybe 600 and swap (no heads), Shock claim rule? definetly 35-50 bucks-no aluminum shocks. Of course engine specs are geared towards Chevy but by no means shood limit or prohibit other brand's from being competetive or even dominant!! The major differences between what I have here and B-Mod from what I have read is they run a Limited Mod motor and have IMCA or UMP tires, their just as heavy. I prefer what I have outlined above. Anybody have any serious input?

My Motto: Go as fast as you can for as little money as possible! I like to go fast, how about ya'll?!!

Ok Houston, It's Time For OUTLAW MODIFIEDS!!


brownstone


posted August 22, 2001 04:13 PM
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Well the big mystery of what a Outlaw Mod is has been revealed ha ha
Its nothing more than a UMP mod !!

What a joke.


Racer4
posted August 22, 2001 05:51 PM
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"What a joke."

Honestly, I alway's wondered why nobody ever wanted to run a limited motor Modified with a better tire rule. If you basically take an IMCA mod and put a real tire like the Hoosier super dirt stocker, don't you have a really fast car? I just spoke with someone last weekend and he is looking for some 2000 dollar Sprint car heads for his UMP modified, that's rediculous! I was making serious suggestion for a new class in Houston. Why is it so humorous? I don't understand, can you explain it to me.
I am talking about a Modified with a less expensive engine ( that's what everybody wants ) and a better tire to make up for less horsepower ( that's what everybody wants) and add some weight so lightweight high-dollar parts are useless ( that's what everybody wants). You mean nobody wants this?

BILLY BOB
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 73 posted August 24, 2001 08:50 AM
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And when you run less motor with your bigger tire and the next guy is running more motor than you he is still faster because he has more motor. Sounds like a ump deal to me only with even bigger tires. Because very few tracks have tech people capable of doing there jobs cheating is going to happen. And who wants to build a car to run at one track? To me bigger tires isn't the answer. It just lets the guys with horsepower go fast.
How about take a mod chassis. Run street tires, Holley 500's on gasoline. And to top it off put a 1000 dollar claimer on the motor intake to pan, water pump to clutch (everything goes) Sounds cheap to me?


Racer4
posted August 24, 2001 04:24 PM
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The spec heads came from the Stock car class. I think it's good reasoning, you can run any factory cast iron head or run the Dart 200cc heads and save on all the machine work. There are an awfull lot of Iron heads out there with acid port work etc etc. You can run the pop up to save on any need for angle milling, run a stock rod and cast crank rule. It's usually pretty easy to spot somebody with an illegal cam, they lope pretty bad (vacuum test too)(this is a $2000 or less longblock spec engine here). And if you want to run an IMCA track, just change your tires and setup and your there. Why would somebody put all the expense into a real mod chassis if they can't run any motor or even go fast? They would be better off running a limited Mod. This would eliminate the 10,ooo dollar motors you see in UMP and make up for that loss of speed with some better tires. This is cheaper speed. If you can't make up for setup with the better tire to over come somebody with a little more motor, how can you do it with any other tire or circumstance, with that attitude you have lost the race before you unloaded the car (this is the benefit of running the mod chassis to begin with right?). With this tire and spec motor you will be putting the Mod chassis through it's paces for real! For those guy's with the money they can put there UMP motor in and change tires to run at a UMP track just as if it were an IMCA car.

Racer4
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted August 26, 2001 03:33 PM
Here is an example of B-Mod rules, keep in mind this is a B-mod rule for an IMCA track. The limited Mod takes up most of the space in this set of rules.:
2001 IMCA MODIFIED RULES APPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING EXCEPTIONS.

1. Fuel-gasoline only. Pump gas. FUEL CELL VENT HOSE MUST EXTEND TO WITHIN 2 INCHES OF THE BOTTOM OF THE CELL AND BE SECURELY FASTENED.
2. Drive train: OEM manual transmission (3 or 4 speed). Stock clutch or mini clutch allowed.Aluminum flywheel allowed. MUST have FULL SIZE steel bell housing. Flywheel MUST bolt to crank shaft. Starter must bolt to engine block or factory location, Or, an OEM automatic with a coupler. Must use a hand or clutch pedal operated ball valve for neutral. NO bump starts. Must use flywheel shield. All forward and reverse gears must be operational. Ford 9" rear end allowed. Floater recommended.
3. Tires: Any G-60 McCreary IMCA stamped. NO TIRE GROOVING ALLOWED.
4. IMCA wheel with or without sticker.
5. ENGINE: Engine must appear strictly stock. All motors must be 9 to 1 compression.
ONLY STOCK APPEARING CRANK AND RODS. NO ALUMINUM OR LIGHT WEIGHT ALLOWED. A MINIMUM 2-INCH PLUG ABOVE THE OIL LEVEL IN THE SIDE OF THE OIL PAN RECOMMENDED. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A PLUG, THE OIL PAN WILL HAVE TO BE REMOVED AT THE TIME OF INSPECTION.

Absolutely no Stroking allowed!

6. A. MANIFOLD: Only stock, unaltered 2 or 4 barrel cast iron intake manifold.
Porting, polishing or port machining are not permitted. No Bowtie, after market, SVO and W2, marine, VORTEC or other special production intake manifolds.
B. CYLINDER HEADS must be cast iron stock production. No aftermarket OR VORTEC.
NO porting or polishing.
7. Roller cams and lifters not allowed. Stock type stamped steel rocker arms only.
No roller fulcrum or roller tip rocker arms. NO REV KITS ALLOWED.
8. Must use OEM distributor and ignition. No multiple spark ignitions.
9. May use aftermarket headers.
10. CARBURETOR:
A. 2 barrel only. GM on GM, Ford on Ford, Chrysler on Chrysler, or #4412 on anything. Holley 500 CFM 2 barrel, part #4412 with a 1-11/16th maximum throttle bore. No grinding or polishing of any kind allowed. All carburetor components Must be for a 500 Holley. No milling or grinding of throttle shaft allowed, shaft must stay round. The choke and air horn may be removed, this is the Only re-working allowed. CASTING LINE AT VENTURI MUST BE PRESENT.
B. Carburetor adapter plate or spacer allowed.(See spec. below)
Important: Distance between the bottom of carburetor and top of intake manifold Can Not exceed one and one quarter (1 1/4) Inch !!
Example adapter: Trans-Dapt part #2086 will adapt Holly 500 to GM manifold.
No high performance adapters allowed, spacer opening must be perpendicular to the base of carburetor. ADJUSTABLE SLIDERS ALLOWED TO TUNE ENGINE THEN SLIDES MUST BE FILLED FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON.
C. The promoter or any driver has the right to claim a carburetor from any car finishing the feature race in the top four (4) positions for $125.00 or $25 and exchange. The driver being claimed has the option of cash or exchange, except with promoter. No driver may claim more than twice in one season. No driver can claim the same car twice.
D. No fuel injection, no electric fuel pumps. No belt driven fuel pumps. Pumps must bolt to block in stock location.
-----I don't like these rules, Too Slow!----

BILLY BOB
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 85
posted August 27, 2001 11:38 AM
Maybe I'm the retarded one here but with all due respect how can current mods be too fast(expensive) and the b-mod class be too slow. If you want big tires, move your motor forward and put a latemodel body on and I think you have what they call latemodel stock at Houston Raceway Park. Maybe that is the class for you. I personally like the B-mod rules you listed, I feel it is far better than the street stock class with mod bodies. ( Now they want to start that around here in Dallas?)
Purses are not going up at all but the cost of racing goes up every year. The classes get more out of hand every year and the gap between the haves and the have nots gets further all the time. Speaking for myself I like the IMCA rules and enjoy racing under that sanction. I am not following what you are trying to accomplish with yet another set of rules for mods.

Racer4
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted August 27, 2001 03:34 PM
Most all of the B-Mod rules I have found are similiar to the one above, but keep in mind: 1) they don't have Limited Modifieds
2) they are IMCA tracks NOT UMP

The tracks around here don't want the IMCA sanction for some reason, so I am trying to fill the Void. If there was an IMCA sanction here then we could run it, but there is no IMCA! Limited Mods are a great class, 2300lbs Hobby Stock's, Yea there Great. I believe Limited Mods took off so fast here in Houston for several reasons. Racing a Limited Modified is cheaper than just about any class except maybe a back of the pack bomber. We have too many full bodied classes and they are all heavy-over 3300lbs 4 to be exact. If you can only afford a bomber motor then race the Limited Mod. If you can afford to build the billet high dollar megga cubic inch UMP motors then by all means go for it. There seems like a huge gap in here. This B-Mod class can be a stepping stone for some, but it has to be fast and cheap enough to attract the Racer. The last is where the better tire comes in.

Here is another set of rules I liked better. Some of this seems a bit strange, but closer none the less. http://www.centralalabamaspeedway.com/sys-tmpl/360economymodifieds/

brownstone
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 52
posted August 30, 2001 07:50 PM
I agree we need B=Mods or something in the houston area. many car owners/drivers will admit it if asked directly.
The UMP motor costs are much too high and have gotten out of hand and wont ever be getting any better.

I am sure there will be somebody that will post on here about how they are happy with running UMP and making laps even though they can t challenge the top cars. Thats there choice and right to do so.

However I like racer4 think we need another choice, the big barrier in this town is finding a promoter to go for it. Poor Gator didnt make it very long even with IMCA's support.

I think if a different mod class is to make it, that class will have be close enough to UMP mods that people can switch with very little cost or effort, otherwise they will just keep making laps with UMP.

I suggest a mod class that restricts the motors to NO aftermarket blocks. Also NO alluminum other than the intake. Also the make of model of aftermarket heads need to be limited to specific brands and part numbers. Intakes should also be limited to a specific list and part numbers. Also no roller cams. I do not want a spec motor but listing whats legal and whats not partwise everyone can by the best on the list and can go no more, unless there smarts or ingenuity take them there.


This only an idea so please feel free to disagree or comment. I think a 2400 lbs weight limit is also fair, I would prefer the IMCA tire as this will limit things as well, but I think the UMP tire could work as well. Ok huys start the tomato throwing lol

BILLY BOB
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 85
posted August 31, 2001 09:50 AM
So basically leave the transmission and carburetors alone and put ump cars on mcCreary tires and limit the motor to all steel with spec part numbers. Sounds like that would work. Just the tire cost alone will definitely be cheaper for you. And I would bet the cars wouldn't be much slower.

racinrich66
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 15
posted August 31, 2001 11:10 AM
I like Billy Bobs idea about leaving the carbs and trans alone with the imca tire. Make the class to where you cant touch the carb, tranie and let the weight rule of 2450 stand. This will give the older cars a chance to be competitive. Here is something thats a little far fetched but what about making a spec gear for each track? 5:29 for HRP, 5:67 for gator and cleveland. I know there are alot of things that could be done with the trannies but make the rules to where your limited to a year/make combo that came with the year and make of the engine. Just my two cents worth.

Racer4
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted August 31, 2001 04:02 PM
Houston is a UMP town now, why would you have a class running the Mcreary tire? Most racers are not going to travel to the Imca tracks. I would like someone to justify that tire in a UMP town.

I still think the B-Mods should be allowed some type of traction improvement due to less engine output. Why not let them have at least one 10" tire and wheel for the RR, And everything else the UMP tire. I agree with the IMCA trans rule. Use the Stock Car 200cc Iron Head Rule. If you don't use a very restrictive cam rule then you better have a really awfull intake rule, I prefer the 466lift or less idea. IMCA fuel pump rule, no exterior ignition boxes, must use fact type ignition (Hei allowed on any brand). Limit the Carbs to Vacume secondary 750's (unmodified). Cast crank rule, stock appearing rods 360 max c.i., must have 2 inch plug on oilpan for inspection. No Aftermarket blocks, or transmissions. Just Remember this is not an IMCA mod, this is supposed to be a significantly cheaper Mod than Ump, with the Only appearance differance being the RR tire.

On the other hand you may need to leave more things UMP legal, like their trans rule to attract the slower UMP cars.

I would like to believe this car could switch to IMCA tires and be legal and competetive at an IMCA race.

Ok, no slam-dunking.

[This message has been edited by Racer4 (edited August 31, 2001).]

brownstone
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 52
posted August 31, 2001 07:50 PM
I know this is a UMP town, and I would like to suggest that an IMCA style tire be phased in over time. I think starting with the UMP tire would be a good idea. I think using the McCreary tire or a tire as hard keeps people from going crazy with the motor or cam.
This is also why I dont want to go with a wider tire of any kind.


Flat tappet cams are not too expensive, but when people start going to roller set ups thats where the trouble starts. I like Racer4's ignition rule and think that should be part of the deal as well. I also think stock style trans rule is the way to go, no berts or brinns.

I do not want to change carbs and I think for the most part carbs should be left alone other than to say that aeresol billet carb should not be allowed because of the cost and advantage to running one. Any other carb would be ok and this would also help bring cars in. Buying another carb as Racer4 mentioned would cost some bucks and might keep guys from switching right away.

I dont mind if people want to spend the money on a steel crank but the rule should say no lightened cranks of any kind, thats were a lot of guys down here are spending there money and weight reduction in the motor helps a lot. Steel cranks aid in the life of the motor, its when these guys buy the crower an scat light weights that it gets out of hand.

I think the rules I mentioned before and these mentioned now would allow a lot of teams to start running b-mods with little or no change and limit cost just enough where things would not get out of hand. The monkey wrench here as I see it aould be the following, the tech man, and the promoter.

The tech guy must know the rules and stick to them and be knowlegeable of the mod class.

And of course we need a promoter that will stand up behind the Tech guy and the rules regardless of the big money guys and there belly aching.

If any of yall used to run at Big H when they were dirt and IMCA then you know what I am talking about. FOr a long time (Jim Chapman not sure of the name, I am memory challenged lol) the tech guy at big H ran things to the letter of the law in the IMCA mods and it was good class etc. But the promoter eventually gave in and pulled his support in favor of the big money guys and thus that was one small step that put us where we are now. Ok fire at will lol, I have already started to duck...lol

MOD RACER#93
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted September 01, 2001 12:46 PM
i dont know as i would switch to this b-mod class.. but i would like to see it...i think it would be a great class to take the place of............ "DWARF CARS"...lol. bring it on i say......

Racer4
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted September 12, 2001 12:51 AM
If you run a cast crank rule, the guy who wants to run an illegal cam will fly apart, I would say that's a pretty good deterrent to cheating on the cam. Keep the RPM down while still making good power, I feel that is a great way to save money.

[This message has been edited by Racer4 (edited September 23, 2001).]

Mod 78
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 15
posted September 12, 2001 08:40 AM
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[This message has been edited by Mod 78 (edited September 12, 2001).]

Racer4
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted September 23, 2001 10:52 PM
This subject is still alive and well. I have recieved great support from fellow racers who want this B-Mod or limited Engine IMCA style Chassis Modified in the Houston area.

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